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News announcements and other topics => News => Topic started by: hartiberlin on December 08, 2008, 08:45:22 AM

Title: Downwind faster as the wind, selfaccelerating runner
Post by: hartiberlin on December 08, 2008, 08:45:22 AM
Hi All,
have a look at this amazing selfaccelerating propeller device:


http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Directly_Downwind_Faster_than_the_Wind


Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Downwind faster as the wind, selfaccelerating runner
Post by: TheOne on December 08, 2008, 12:05:49 PM
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6261.msg142494;topicseen#msg142494
Title: Re: Downwind faster as the wind, selfaccelerating runner
Post by: nightlife on December 08, 2008, 12:57:29 PM
 if this is true, we should be able to use a fan attached to a bedini style pulse motor blowing in either a turbine and or another fan with the motion attached to a generator and we should get more power out then what was put in.

It sounds impossible but in a sense, that is what they are claiming it can do. I say we try it and see for ourselves and we will either debunk it or show true over unity.
Title: Re: Downwind faster as the wind, selfaccelerating runner
Post by: sparks on December 08, 2008, 01:06:24 PM
   The fastest tack when sailboat racing is a broad reach.  This combines the pressure of the wind that pops the hull forward like squeezing a marble and having it pop forward :    with the development of a low pressure or partial vacuum just ahead of the aerfoil of the sail.  The wind can be blowing 20knots and the boat does 30.
Title: Re: Downwind faster as the wind, selfaccelerating runner
Post by: TechStuf on December 08, 2008, 01:42:19 PM

Yeah, Sterling Allan posted a thread about this device yesterday, just scroll down a bit........


Interesting, to be sure.


TS
Title: Re: Downwind faster as the wind, selfaccelerating runner
Post by: JuanDelaTorre on December 08, 2008, 03:38:45 PM
Quote from: sparks on December 08, 2008, 01:06:24 PM
   The fastest tack when sailboat racing is a broad reach.  This combines the pressure of the wind that pops the hull forward like squeezing a marble and having it pop forward :    with the development of a low pressure or partial vacuum just ahead of the aerfoil of the sail.  The wind can be blowing 20knots and the boat does 30.

Hello sparks,

When I first read the title, I immediately thought of sailingâ€"exactly what your comment states.  Your comment is 100% correct, but that isn’t what is occurring here.  What made me see the affect is in this video:
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=9S2HHwfcz9Y&eurl=http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Directly_Downwind_Faster_than_the_Wind

Let me see if I can explain what I think is happening.  The momentum of the car make the wheels turn; this makes the propeller spin, creating a forward thrust.   The speed of the wheels are directly proportionate to the thrust of the propeller. Thus, as the speed of the wheels increases there will be a point where the thrust of the propeller will minimize the drag of the vehicle.  I don’t believe it will cause an overunity situation, but a cancelation of drag and with thrust.

Please take another look at it and tell me what you think.
Title: Re: Downwind faster as the wind, selfaccelerating runner
Post by: TechStuf on December 08, 2008, 04:03:49 PM

Yes, however such a reality offers the enterprising prospect that even if one may not lift themselves by their own boot straps.....they may, indeed, hold themselves aloft by them.


Considering the greater debate that's been raging over this topic....It becomes ever more glaringly obvious, the exculpatory ease with which many "lettered men" adapt their thinking to eventualities once ridiculed by their infantile and therefore disproportionately large heads.


TS
Title: Re: Downwind faster as the wind, selfaccelerating runner
Post by: TheOne on December 08, 2008, 04:48:39 PM
I was wondering with this technologies if we can stack a lot of "device" one after another one linked together, since the first device generate a lot of wind from the propeller the second device will receive as twice as much wind, the thirds will receive more wind then the first 2. If all the wheel all linked together then the device will increase speed a lot faster.

Now, how you convert that in electricity? The only way I see so far is a track in circle when the stacked device will move around it and put magnet on the device and coil on the track? I don't think using the propeller and connecting on the shaft a wheel with magnet on it will work well on this type of device.


Title: Re: Downwind faster as the wind, selfaccelerating runner
Post by: TechStuf on December 08, 2008, 05:12:17 PM

I would be highly interested in seeing the experiment duplicated with winglets installed at the rotor tips.


Hmm.....


TS
Title: Re: Downwind faster as the wind, selfaccelerating runner
Post by: sparks on December 09, 2008, 09:11:14 AM
   There is alot here to study.  Coanada effect  inertial gain.  Something tells me that it is like the machine I want to put together below.  Turning brake torque into work.
Title: Re: Downwind faster as the wind, selfaccelerating runner
Post by: TechStuf on December 09, 2008, 09:49:02 AM

Coanda effect/inertial gain.


An astute supposition......


TS

Title: Re: Downwind faster as the wind, selfaccelerating runner
Post by: Super God on December 09, 2008, 10:35:57 AM
Attach a small ac motor to the wheels and use it in reverse.  See how much power we can extract while still maintaining a forward net thrust.
Title: Re: Downwind faster as the wind, selfaccelerating runner
Post by: AbbaRue on December 12, 2008, 02:01:04 AM
I was studying this device for a while as it ran on the treadmill, and I noticed an important point.
While it's running on the treadmill there is no wind friction coming at it from the front.
If it were running down the street at 10 mph with a back wind of 8 mph it would encounter 2 mph of air friction from the front.
The faster it moved the more front wind friction it would encounter.
So based on this I wonder if it would keep going if it was say fastened to a center post and allowed to circle the post.
The treadmill is deceiving because the machine runs faster then the treadmill which is moving 8 mph.
But the machine isn't encountering 8 mph air friction coming at it.
If you had a fan in front of it blowing at 8 mph the machine would go backwards not forwards.

I hope I got my point across, I know what I'm trying to say but just can't seem to find the right wording.

Title: Re: Downwind faster as the wind, selfaccelerating runner
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 12, 2008, 02:06:45 AM
@ AbbaRue:

You got your point across very well and I agree with you.  I didn't think of that but you are exactly correct.  The treadmill give the wheels the rpms they need without the penalty of any headwind due to forward motion.  It kind of negates part of the equation.  Good observation.

Bill
Title: Re: Downwind faster as the wind, selfaccelerating runner
Post by: AbbaRue on December 12, 2008, 02:30:08 AM
Of course this doesn't explain what is happening with the unit that is actually running down the street and accelerating.
But a steady wind is rare so the wind could be speeding up and slowing down.
Title: Re: Downwind faster as the wind, selfaccelerating runner
Post by: exnihiloest on December 12, 2008, 06:09:06 AM
Quote from: hartiberlin on December 08, 2008, 08:45:22 AM
Hi All,
have a look at this amazing selfaccelerating propeller device:


http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Directly_Downwind_Faster_than_the_Wind


Regards, Stefan.

Hi Stefan and all,

After some discussions on fr.sci.physique, and refering to other studies on the web back to 2006, it appears clearly that the device really works and it do it according to physics laws.

Here is how we can see the system, it is simple:
As the propeller and the wheels are coupled, what makes the prop to rotate is only the motion of the device.
When the wind pushes the device, it starts rolling thus the prop rotates and "blows" backward. As it blows backward the reaction force leaning on the wind pushes the device forward and its speed increases beyond the wind speed.

Another simple way to view the device is to do an equivalent with electricity. Here is how it works by replacing "speed" by "voltage".
Consider wind energy as an electric generator of 5v ("wind speed") and the device as a capacitor charged at 10v ("device speed"), voltages refering to the earth. The problem is to increase still more the capacitor charge from the 5v generator. Easy: you just have to add another 10v generator between the "wind generator" and the device, you will get 15v. From the viewpoint of the device which is at 10v, there is 5 remaining and usable volts without drawing from the 10v generator. The backward blowing prop plays the role of the 10v generator, a kind of "potential gap" or bridge between two referentials at different speeds, allowing to exploit the wind energy from frames of reference at any speed.

Such a device could also be designed to go against the wind.
In conlusion we see that this smart device always needs there is a wind speed  > 0 (refering to the earth), which is the only energy source. It is not an OU device.








Title: Re: Downwind faster as the wind, selfaccelerating runner
Post by: sparks on December 12, 2008, 09:07:51 AM
     An airplane moves forward in a tailwind.  The propeller creates a low pressure area just in front of the blade.  This pressure differential causes the blade to be pushed into this cavity by the surrounding pressure.  The plane therefore moves forward in the inertial frame of the tailwind.  The same effect is utilized by the wings to provide lift.  It also allows a sailboat to go against the wind.  What is interesting here is that the wheels of the unit are used as a motor to drive the prop.  The inertial gain of the device is input from the kinetic energy of the wind as observed by the Earth.  By placing the wheels in the inertial frame of the Earth the wheels now observe the kinetic energy of the wind and in this device convert it to work on the prop.  No wind no move.
Title: Re: Downwind faster as the wind, selfaccelerating runner
Post by: PYRODIN123321 on December 12, 2008, 11:45:33 AM
@ sparks

i agree no wind-no go

a cleaver little wind powered device- a little misleading on the tread-
in place of the wind the tread provides the power for wheels and in turn the prop , in a head wind the prop powers the wheels, the more head wind the more power the prop diverts to the wheels like a reverse sail instead of the wind pushing, it pulls into the wind
the extra wind/power from acceleration is used by the prop instead of being wasted as air resistance-no OU just efficient
with a payload i think it would have to be very aerodynamic-eventualy you will reach terminal velocity via ground resitance and air resistance

this would indeed be cool with a coanda type setup and some of viktor schauburger(dont know if i spelled right) concepts in mind
;)
Title: Re: Downwind faster as the wind, selfaccelerating runner
Post by: icanbeatbob on December 13, 2008, 12:05:14 AM
If this thing fell straight down with the prop pushing downwards ,and of course, allowing the wheels to spin to create the prop movement, I wonder how much speed difference there would be,as oppose to just falling without the wheels spinning, assuming it fell facing the same way?

With this scenario, it would be better with much less air resistance I presume.

Brad
Title: Re: Downwind faster as the wind, selfaccelerating runner
Post by: TechStuf on December 13, 2008, 01:30:04 AM

Yes, obviously the device is egg on the face of many of many "lettered men".   Of course, they have more than master's degrees.  Many are also masters at avoiding their greater selves...so much so, that many will refuse to step outside and look at the light.  It hurts too much.


"I thank You, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because You have hid these things from the wise and prudent, and have revealed them unto babes." - Yeshua, Jesus Christ


Many a self assumptive fool leans long and hard upon his own feeble understanding, puffery and reputation, so all that remains for them is the cobwebbed corners into which they have masterfully painted themselves. 


That?  Oh that will never work!   It works?  Well of course it works, and is perfectly explainable.


Notice the emptiness between point A and point B.


What a life......ouch.



TS