why does no one talk about the wimhurst generator?
it can generate FAR more voltage/amperage, than it took energy to turn the 2 wheels.
someone in europe built a 4 foot wide by 3 foot tall version, that generated 300 volts at 10 amps. or 3,000 watts.
they assume that it collects electrostatic energy from the air.
but i think that is polarizes an energy source which is all around us at all times, into positive and negative polarity. which is then mixed together into electricity.
is this device actually a zero point energy device?
i have done something similar, using the net clockwise spin of copper, and the net counter-clockwise spin of steel.
mixed together into electricity.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iACqjSSINA
here is a wimhurst model, sold by images SI inc.
how how is enough voltage/amperage,
to create ONE INCH LONG LIGHTNING SPARKS,
being generated by mere HAND MOVEMENT ??????
some people get 3 inch long lightning sparks, on theirs.......
I bet you're just itching to see what a good solenoid rigged to provide impulse power to the wheel might do.....
Aren't you Nitinnun?
http://www.societyofrobots.com/actuators_solenoids.shtml
"Even for jumping robots"......hmm....
TS
@nitinnun ,
Perhaps no one talks about Wimshurst machines because they usually put out microamps or less. Do you have any links for the one that puts out 10amps at 300volts?
-Steve
http://rimstar.org http://wsminfo.org
i suspect that more surface area on the plates, means more amperage.
such as 2 large plates, taking up 1 whole wheel.
opposed to the normal 20 something smaller plates. taking up one of the wheels.
i am planning to build a flat donut shaped DC motor. just for the wimhurst.
the flat/wide motor shape, is superior to the shaft-based motor.
for efficiency, and ease of attaching to equipment.
the swedish wimhurst, was in "the manual of free energy devices and systems". by D.A kelly.
i downloaded it from a torrent, online.
because the book is extremely hard to find.
that book had MANY useful, clearly explained devices in it.
but the swedish wimhurst mentioned in it, had unusual added features.
features that increased its amperage greatly.
these features increased the amperage, by "reducing losees, due to inefficiency".
or by "reinforcing the amperage", against forces that canceled it out.
VII. GENERATOR UNIT (Self-sustaining Type)
h) Swiss M-L Converter
The Swiss M-L converter is a fully symmetrical, influence-type energy converter, which is essentially based on the Wimhurst electrostatic generator with its twin, matched counter-rotating discs.
It is apparent that this unit design has been substantially upgraded over the old Wimhurst electrostatic generators, but still has the characteristic metallic foil sectors which both generate and carry small charges of electricity to be stored in matched capacitors.
Each sector accumulates the charges derived by influence with the other sectors.
In the old Wimhurst units diagonal neutralizing brushes on each opposite disc distribute the correct charges to the sectors as they revolve, but in this new M-L converter this function is accomplished by a crystal diode at higher efficienciesthan the older design.
Two collection brushes collect the accumulating charges and conduct them to the storage capacitor, located at the top of this new design.
Unlike the old Wimhurst design, this new converter utilizes several new and improved features such as two horseshoe magnets with coils, and a hollow cylindrical magnet as a part of the diode function, and two Leyden jars or flasks, which apparently serve as the final capacitor function for the converter.
It becomes apparent that this new converter susbtantially increases the current (amperage) flow with the addition of the coil and magnets combination, as in the Coler solid-state devices.
The use of top grade components, such as goldplated contacts, control electrodes and dual capacitor stages insure much higher conversion efficiences than was possible with the old Wimhurst machines.
The general specification for the operating prototype are:
1) Efficiency: 1:106, due to self-sustained operation. The unit is started by hand revolving, with no other input power source required!!
2) Constant Power Output: 300 volts @ 10 Amperes = 3KW.
3) Dimensions: 43.31" wide, 17.72" deep, 23.62" high
4) Weight: 44 Lbs. Operating speed 60rpm.
VII. GENERATOR UNIT (Self-sustaining Type)
Analysis of the Swiss M-L Converter, with multiple electrical circuits.
It is evident that this excellent o/u/o Converter unit is based on the Winshurst electrostatic generator which utilizes
It is evident that this excellent o/u/o Converter unit is based on the Wimshurst electrostatic generator which utilizes multiple steel segments.
These Wimshurst E/S generators are made with either steel or aluminum segements, with
the aluminum segments being true electrostatic elements.
When steel segments are used on the twin discs of this unit, the Searl Effect is in evidence, with E/M conversion made at the rim/periphery of the discs through passive electromagnets.
This unique o/u/o unit becomes an ideal converter since both high voltage A.C. and moderate A.C. amperage can be simultaneously generated through two separate electrical circuits from the discs.
The twin disc's conventional conductive brushes pick-off the high voltage A.C, while the rim electromagnet's coils produce a useful E.M.F. (useful amperage level).
When permanent horseshoe magnets with coils are utilized, as in this present Swiss unit, then the
E.M.F. output is enhanced to a considerable extent, as is evident in the specs, for this M-L unit.
The self-propulsion, after hand starting, is achieved through the adaptation of the Poggendorff principle (a German scientist of the 1870's) in which slanted conductive brushes produce self-rotation in electrostatic motors, (not generators).
In regard to the special crystal diode module, this component most probably provides the dual functions of frequency regulation and capacitance amplifier â€" to the two Leyden jars.
This special diode-capacitor provides frequency output regulation and capacitance amplification as part of the electrical resonance circuit, since it is connected with the horseshoe magnet coils.
This unit is essentially comprised of three separate electrical circuits, which are:
1) The high voltage A.C. output from the twin discs as a conventional Wimshurst electrostatic generator.
2) A moderate A.C. amperage circuit produced by the dual horseshow magnet coils (Searl Effect) as the plus and
minus discs pass by them. (Pulsed D.C. output at 50 Hz.)
3) A rsonance circuit in which the horseshoe magnet coils are connected to the diode capacitor so that frequency regulation is assured. The diode capacitor is then connected to the Leyden jar, transmitter unit.
The major physical principles involved in this outstanding composite unit are:
1) Electrostatic conversion using twin discs for positive output from one, and negative output from the other.
2) The evidence of the "Searl Effect" from the use of multiple, identical steel segments inducing an E.M.F. electromagnets at the discs periphery (rim).
3) The Ecklin principle is also in evidence, since the steel segments pass by permanent horseshow magnets, as in Ecklin's S.A.G. units.
4) The Poggendorff self-rotating electrostatic motor principle, as described above.
5) The crystal capacitance function of the crystal diode module.
The full operation of this unique component, with its hollow cylindrical permanent magnet, is a composite component with the dual functions, as described above.
The Swiss M-L Converter, â€" "A Masterpiece of Craftsmanship and Electronic Engineering".
Members of the G. A.G.F.E. have inspected this Swiss system on five different occasions from 1984 to the present.
There are two small units and this presently described larger unit located in a commune near Bern, Switzerland.
This machine and the two smaller units have been running on and off since 1982.
The larger machine produces 3 to 4 KW at 230 volts D.C, and apparently extracts energy from the gravity stressing field, and there is no primary propulsion of any kind.
This type of gravity energy field converter confirms perfectly the Bearden and Nieper model of the tachyon field.
This is especially true for the considering of charge and mass of the electron to be separate.
The converter runs continuously by itself, with only rotating wear parts being the two ball bearings at the center of the two discs.
The M-L Converter is functionally constructed, completely symmetrical with the two discs made of acrylic plastic, a light metal lattice, insulated copper wires, a secret crystal-diode rectifier, and gold-plated electrical connections.
Everything is hand-made with the finest craftmanship, with an elegant beauty.
The operating principle has been known for a long time, and these machines have been developed over a twenty year time span.
In electrostatic generators, the air molecules between the two acrylic discs which closely counter-rotate, side by side, become electrically activated by friction.
This causes the discs to be continually charged, until a flashover equalizes them.
To limit the electrical voltage to a desired amount, the positive charged particles on one of the counterrotating discs and the negative charged particles on the other disc are each extracted by means of separately adjustable latticeelectrodes, and are fed into a Leyden jar which collects the energy.
The speed of the discs, on which a fan-like structure of 50 lattice electrodes are etched out, is 60 rpm.
(It is obvious that this discrete ratio of lattice/segments and speed will produce a 50 Hertz, pulsed D.C. output.)
This speed is synchronized by magnetic impulses.
The unit is hand started by revolving the two discs in opposite directions, until the converter was charged up to such a degree that it synchronized itself and continued to rotate smoothly and noiselessly, without any input source of power.
A centrally mounted disc of about 4 inches in diameter was glimmering in all the colors of the rainbow.
After only a few seconds the Leyden jars were ready for operation, so that 300 volts D.C., with a current of 10 amperes could be extracted at the terminals, and this could be done continuously for hours, or for years, without any wear!
To demonstrate the power available, connections were made to both, alternately, a high power incandescent lamp or a heating element, each of which was rated at 380 volt service.
The brilliant light from the lamp was blinding, and completely illuminated the hall to the furthest corner. The heating element became so hot, after a few seconds, that it could not be touched.
This experience was certainly a look into the future for all of us, and the start of a new era!
It became evident for everybody who saw this converter functioning, that the teachings of orthodox science must undergo a complete revision in order to be taken seriously.
(The fundamental law of physics, according to Robert Mayer of 1842, is "The sum of all energy forms is constant.")
Today there are already dozens of known violations of the orthodox energy laws.
This project work represents international science at work, in it finest form, which will become the wave of the future!!
the poles of 2 horse shoe magnets, were placed over the 2 wheels.
like this:
+
MMMM
M wheel
M wheel
MMMM
-
the north pole, was likely over the clockwise spinning wheel.
the south pole, was likele over the counter-clockwise spinning wheel.
so that "opposites attract",
would reinforce the magnetic charge, on the wheels.
each horse shoe magnet, was wrapped with a wire coil.
to energize the magnet.
both wire coils, were powered by the wimhurst.
ironically.
there was also a large tube shaped magnet, that acted as a "diode-capacitor".
this tube shaped magnet, was keeping the amperage from slowing down.
until the amperage, could be measured.
the above 2 features, "reinforced" the magnetism.
so that amperage could not be "lost", before it could be harvested.
just like jets in a spa, keeps the spa water flowing,
the above features, keep the amperage flowing.
Quote from: nitinnun on December 16, 2008, 03:31:37 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iACqjSSINA
here is a wimhurst model, sold by images SI inc.
how how is enough voltage/amperage,
to create ONE INCH LONG LIGHTNING SPARKS,
being generated by mere HAND MOVEMENT ??????
some people get 3 inch long lightning sparks, on theirs.......
Wimpy!
Take a look at one of mine:
(this one's running on DC motors but could just as easily be hand-cranked.)
The left-hand sphere is 5.5 inches (140 mm) diameter.
This is a 15-second exposure, and I counted 13 sparks in that time.
The blur on the right is a pvc rod I use to "perturb" the field to initiate the longest sparks. Close the gap a few mm and the rod isn't needed to initiate sparks.
Strictly speaking, this is a Bonetti aka sectorless Wimshurst. The sectors and sharp edges of the conventional Wimshurst machine severely limit the voltage that can be obtained. The current is proportional to the rotational speed of the disks.
Note the corona distribution.
Hmmm, I wonder what a good metal, with maximized surface area, might be to use with a Wimhurst?
TS
I would just like to point out that Kelly's description of how a Wimshurst machine works is flawed. If the Testatika is based on the Wimshurst machine, and is an electrostatic machine, then it is important, I think, to get the basics right.
Current output of these electrostatic machines is determined by the rotational speed, all other factors being held constant. That being said, machines with a lot of sharp edges and screens and hardware, will waste a lot of current at high voltages by blowing charge off as corona.
In addition, the 2 disks of a Wimshurst or Bonetti machine are not oppositely charged, nor do the machines produce AC current (except during a cap discharge, of course.) The neutralising combs do not distribute charge to the sectors as Kelly says but rather allow opposite charges to cancel, or neutralize, thus leaving regions of the disk with excess charge. The oppositely charged regions of the disks, moving past each other, act as electrostatic inductors.
To achieve maximum power from these machines, clean smooth design is very important, and proper spacing and insulation of components is critical.
These reasons make me suspect that the Methernitha Testatika may not, in fact, be very much like an electrostatic Wimshurst machine after all.
there were pictures of it in the book.
i have also seen pictures of this swedish wimhurst machine, online.
if it is not a wimhurst machine, than it looks exactly like one......
Yes, the basic structure of the Testatika does "look like" a Wimshurst machine. But this may be a red herring. Certainly the Testatika device is not optimized for the electrostatic generation of high voltages or currents.
I'm not saying it isn't, for sure, but what I am saying is that the machine violates many principles of good high-voltage design (and I'm not talking a few kilovolts here; my machine in the picture is producing at least 200,000 volts and on a good day may reach 500,000 volts).
Certainly the many Wimshurst machine designs that are made with sectors on the disks, contact brushes, and many projecting parts and low-dielectric materials, can produce nothing like these voltages or currents. The Wimshurst in the video makes a 75 mm spark every 3 or 4 seconds, and that's pretty typical for a tabletop Wimshurst with 10-inch disks. My machine makes a 200 mm spark nearly once per second--and it has NO contact brushes, only corona brushes.
The electrostatic machine at the heart of the Testatika, if it is such, would only be capable of a small output, because its voltage would be severely limited by all the sharp edges, points, sectors, and contact brushes. Plus, Baumann's own description of the workings of the machine indicate that, even if it is a static machine, it must work on completely different principles than the Wimshurst or Bonetti machines. Baumann says one disk is Cloud and one is Earth, for example, which implies that the disks have opposite polarities. This is not the case for Wimshurst or Bonetti machines. And so forth.
i think that it would be wise to withhold your judgement,
until you have looked closer at the machine in kelly's book.
instead of building large whimhurst generators, why not build many small ones?
each one powering an individual electronic device.
such as a computer?
the DC output could be converted into AC,
converted into more amperage and less voltage by a transformer,
and fed into the computer.
if you needed more amperage,
you could even connect many small wimhursts together, in parallel.
stacking their amperage.
i have been thinking about how to build a flat, wide, ring shaped DC motor.
the flatter i could build it, the more small wimhursts could be stacked.
to combine their amperage.
G'day all,
Forget about Wimshurst machines, ther are far better machines that have been developed.
The best available literature is V E Johnson's Modern high speed influence machines that was published in the 1020's if my memory does not desert me. The book has recently been re-published and is available on the net.
A must read for anyone interested in such things.
Hans von Lieven
the whole point of free energy, is to power our homes.
the best way to power a home,
is to give each appliance its own power supply.
sepperate from all others.
this would eliminate the need to install wall outlets,
would reduce the amount of danger (lower wattage, and less cords to damage),
would lessen the need for transformers,
and would be far easier to implement.
if someones expensive,
bulky,
unworkable,
undeveloped,
hard-to-implement-pet-peeve,
can power my computer more efficiently,
than a 6 inch long by 6 inch wide stack,
of simple,
cheap,
easily replaced,
HOME MADE wimhurst generators,
than they should tell us all about it.
Here is a clip of my Wimhurst being powered by one of my magnet motors ;D..10 watts input.
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=OqXtWeAQx60 (http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=OqXtWeAQx60)
You can see the static has crept into my magnet motor!
Scotty.
@ Scotty1:
Nice video (5 stars) and very nice build there. I am confused because my physics professor at college said that static electricity can not be made to do work, it is static and that is why it is so named. After being here on OU dot com for almost 2 years, I now know better. Heck, I did my laundry today and just for laughs, I took a cfl and held it by the glass tubes while I was folding my sweaters. Well, that bulb lit up very brightly quite a few times. (lots of static, I don't use dryer sheets) I would really like to look up that professor and tell him what I have learned. Lighting a bulb is work...correct?
That is quite an apparatus you have built there. I can see you put a lot of work into it. Very nice job.
Bill
i could build a magnet motor driven wimhurst, that takes up several times less space/materials.
i didn't know that wimhurst generators existed, until a short time ago.
and i'm still meditating upon MANY design possibilities.
but once my wimhurst is finished, it will be a masterpiece among hand crafted devices.
Very nice work, scotty!!
I can give you some tips to improve the voltage output of your machine. As a goal, the machine should be able to make sparks of about 2/3 the diameter of the disk.
The first most important thing is to make everything as smooth as possible. Get rid of all sharp edges and projecting points. One thing that will help right away is to trim off about half of the pickup combs, so you will be picking up only from the outer inch or so of the disks. Make the neutral combs cover the same area. Insulate the edges of the sectors on the disks by coating the sectors with varnish or corona dope, except for the area where the pickup combs and brushes will contact. With metal sectors and contact brushes, the pickup brushes and neutral combs can be made quite small. With non-contact corona machines like mine, the brushes need to be larger, but for maximum voltage on either machine, you can eliminate the pickup brushes altogether!! (This does reduce current output, though.) Not the neutral combs, though, these are critical.
The edges of those metal sectors on the disks prevent Wimshurst machines from reaching their full "potential" !! Or you can even get rid of the sectors all together and just use dielectric disks, for even better performance.
Also look to the Leyden jars. The same thing about insulating sharp edges applies here too. Much power can be lost in the jars if you aren't careful. Keep conduction paths dry and spaced well apart.
Dust and moisture on the parts of the machine that are supposed to be insulators can severely lower voltage. But paradoxically, a wipedown of the metal conducting parts with a slightly dampened lintfree cloth can improve performance.
The neutral structures are far more important than many folks realize. They can be a source of leakage, and their positioning is crucial for good performance and maximum voltage and current.
Oh, and, nitinnun, I first studied Kelly's work some time ago. Thanks for bringing it up again. I had forgotten how amusing it was. But if you want to understand electrostatic machines, you really should read some other stuff, and take Kelly with a (considerable) grain of salt.
(edited a speling errror.)
@nitinnun,
Thanks for the passages from D.A. Kelly's book. If the testatika is what Kelly is talking about in his book then I'm quite familiar with it as I've been researching it and trying to replicate it since 2005. See:
http://rimstar.org/sdenergy/testa
Over the years I've found that people either correctly refer to a Wimshurst machine as the specific electrostatic machine that consists of two neutralizers, two collectors and two leyden jars in a specific configuration. Then there are those who mistakenly refer to any dual disk electrostatic machine as a Wimshurst machine. Not only does the tesatika look nothing like a Wimshurst machine, except for having disks, as timselKoala pointed out, it's a lousy design for a Wimshurst machine.
I have noticed the similarity of the magnet circuit with Coler's stuff before. Another correlation is with the Hyde generator.
@Scotty,
Thanks for your videos. I always enjoy looking at your stuff. It's great seeing what others have built, expecially when they're as creative as you.
-Steve
http://rimstar.org http://wsminfo.org
i've been "researching" energy physics.
not the mainstream "hubris-disguised-as-understanding",
but what "i" can figure out, from my own observations on free energy devices.
the horse shoe magnets and magnetic cylinder diode on the swedish wimhurst, "fit together" very well, with my understanding of the physics.
but i have a large amount of "how", to work out.
my intuition says to focus heavily on the horse shoe magnets, and the magnetic cylinder diode.
i just got the wimhurst machine that i ordered from images SI inc.
it generates lightning bolts one after the other, VERY quickly,
when the electrodes are 1 inch a part.
but i am confused.....
i measured the electricity on one multimeter, that's amperage setting has always been broken.
the voltage measured 60 volts, at max speed.
then i measured the electricity, with my other multimeter.
and it read 30 volts, at 20 AMPS!
it was my understanding,
that wimhursts normally generated a lot of voltage,
at little amperage.
not a measely 30 volts, at a whopping 20 amps.
is my wimhurst somehow converting excess voltage, into more amps?
as per a transformer?
or is my multimeter extremely inaccurate?
(the multimeter beeps for mercy, when i set it to measure milliamps.)
(which means that the amperage is WAY above the range of milliamps!)
(like it would be, when measureing a battery. which has more amperage, than voltage)
Hah!
You will soon learn to keep your IC-containing equipment far away from your electrostatic machines!
The way to estimate high voltages in spark gaps is to use a "sphere gap" table (http://home.earthlink.net/~jimlux/hv/spherev.htm) and some interpolation. For spheres of diameter greater than the gap distance, they are quite accurate. You can figure about 30 kilovolts per centimeter of gap, if the spheres are large and smooth. Less for smaller spheres or "needle" gaps, but still over 10 kV per centimeter. So you might have hooked your DMM up to anything from 30 to 90 THOUSAND volts. That will definitely cause the meter to give you inaccurate readings. For the rest of its life, if any.
let me be clearer.
i hooked the multimeter pins up,
directly to the spark electrodes.
so that NO BUILD UP could happen.
so the charges IMMEDIATELY mixed together,
into electricity.
what i was reading,
was the per second RECHARGE RATE,
of the wimhurst.
NOT what the output has become,
after the voltage has built up,
and the amperage has stagnated.
since the charges could not build up to monsterous levels,
and the amperage could not stagnate in the layden jars,
the reading was 30 volts at 20 amps.
which are perfectly safe levels, for a multimeter.
i checked my multimeter on a 9 volt battery, afterwords.
the battery read 8.3 volts, at 2.63 amps.
which is what 9 volt batteries usually read as.
the RECHARGE RATE of the wimhurst, did no damage to my multimeter.
even though the extreme voltage of the BUILD UP, would have.
who told you that wimhurt generators HAVE to be measured, with a spark gap?????
the oil companies?
what is wrong, with my zero-buildup method?
Nothing's wrong with it, it's just fatally inaccurate.
I'm glad you didn't blow your meter, though. If you check the internal fuse you may find out why the ammeter of the one isn't working.
By having the relatively low-impedance meter hooked up, you are indeed preventing the buildup of charge. Unfortunately, the machine, like all electrostatic induction or influence machines, depends on the buildup of charge in order to start working at all. So I'm not sure what you are measuring. But it's easy enough to prove that it isn't giving you 30 volts at 20 amps, isn't it? Got a car headlight lying around?
I still think that you got up to some high voltage and confused your meter, and got lucky and didn't harm it permanently.
"i checked my multimeter on a 9 volt battery, afterwords.
the battery read 8.3 volts, at 2.63 amps.
which is what 9 volt batteries usually read as."
Are you saying that you hooked your meter directly across the terminals of a 9-volt battery, in DC AMP mode, and it read 2.63 amps? No resistors or other loads, just the ammeter across the battery??
And a fully charged 9 volt alkaline battery should read something closer to 10 volts, no load.
the multimeters amperage setting, never worked from day one.
it never worked, years before i got this wimhurst.
you do understand that the multimeter creates a circuit, to test the voltage/amperage.
right?
the voltage/amperage of both polarities, are connecting together, inside the multimeter.
the multimeter HAS to test this way. because positive charge alone and negative charge allone, cannot be measured by any known electronics.
the 2 polarities can only be tested, WHEN MIXED TOGETHER INTO ELECTRICITY.
Did you hook your multimeter directly across the poles of a nine volt battery, in the DC AMP setting?
Or did you arrange a resistive load, hook the battery to the load, measure the amps thru the load, and the voltage while under load (which is the correct way to do it)?
I understood your statement to mean the first. If the second, good for you and I apologize.
"the multimeters amperage setting, never worked from day one.
it never worked, years before i got this wimhurst."
Yes, that I do understand. But they generally have an internal fuse on the low amp connection, and this fuse commonly blows and is sometimes hard to find.
"positive charge alone and negative charge allone, cannot be measured by any known electronics"
This I disagree with, but again maybe there's a communication problem. Get a NE-2 neon bulb, the kind with two little rod electrodes inside. Tape one lead to a stick and let the other lead stick out. Hold it near the charged electrode of your machine. One or the other of the neon's rods will glow, depending on whether it is near the positive or the negative polarity. No circuit is needed, just the field gradient.
And that's just a single simple example that you can do yourself at home.
i'm not sure what you are asking.
but this is what i did:
i used clips,
to firmly connect the positive multimeter lead,
to the positive battery terminal.
and the negative multimeter lead,
to the negative battery terminal.
8.3 volts,
at 2.63 amps,
from the 9 volt battery.
(this 9 volt has been used a little, on other things. so it is not at full charge)
then i "completely disconnected" the multimeter, from the battery.
and hooked the multimeter up, to the wimhurst.
i used clips,
to firmly connect the positive multimeter lead,
to the positive wimhurst electrode.
and the negative multimeter lead,
to the negative wimhhurst electrode.
30 volts,
at 20 amps,
from the wimhurst
(at max hand cranking speed).
then i "completely disconnected" the multimeter, from the wimhurst.
and hooked it back up to the 9 volt batter.
the same way as before.
8.3 volts,
at 2.63 amps,
from the 9 volt battery.
just like before.
the multimeter DOES mix the 2 polarities together.
similar to a load.
because voltage/amperage can only be measured,
when the 2 polarities are mixed together, into electricity.
since the multimeter SHORTED OUT the 2 electrodes,
only the recharge rate per second, could be measured.
WITHOUT voltage build up,
and WITHOUT amperage stagnation.
the 2 polarities,
are still mixing together,
inside that neon bulb.
one polarity is just passing through the air,
to get into the bulb.
i think that neon bulbs use high frequency AC electricity.
but ANY frequency of AC electricity, can pass through the air.
even the unmixed polarities,
can travel a very short distance through air,
to reach an electrode.
"i used clips,
to firmly connect the positive multimeter lead,
to the positive battery terminal.
and the negative multimeter lead,
to the negative battery terminal.
8.3 volts,
at 2.63 amps,
from the 9 volt battery.
(this 9 volt has been used a little, on other things. so it is not at full charge)"
Used a little! I'll say. A nine-volt battery should be able to deliver tens of amps into a direct short, which is what an ammeter is. So, either your battery is dead, or your meter is malfunctioning, or both. If you commonly hook your ammeter directly across a power supply, without a load in series with it, no wonder it isn't working right.
Your comment about the neon working on AC is incorrect, too. It works on DC as well, as I have tried to show you. A NE-2, when hooked to AC will have both rods glowing, but when hooked to DC, or in a DC field like from your Wimshurst machine, only one rod will glow, and that depends on its polarity (or the field gradient). DC, not AC. Actually, the neon only works on DC, if you think about it. The rods alternate which one is lit, depending on the momentary polarity of the AC.
if my multimeter inaccurately reads amperage,
as being "LOWER" than it really is.....
than why is my multimeter reading the amperage of the wimhurst,
as being vastly,
rediculously,
insanely "HIGHER",
than it supposidely is?
why would my multimeter be inaccurately low, for testing batteries,
but inaccurately high, for testing the wimhurst?
your doubt-based arguments,
are not helping to solve this mystery.
they are making the myster even messier, than it already was.
and are threatening to bury possible new understanding,
under "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain".
it is not constructive,
to "blame it all on the multimeter",
and forget about it.
that is not how innovation, comes to exist.
this mystery, does not fit well with "it's a bad multimeter".
there seems to be more basic factors, at work here.
basic factors, of energy physics.
You are a person who hooks an ampmeter across a power supply with no load!
I am so flabbergasted by this that I cannot even formulate a coherent response.
I am not trying to "blame it all on the multimeter and forget it." I am trying to inform you about some details of measurement, instrument design, electrostatic devices, and so forth. But you are resistant.
Nevertheless, a couple of things are undeniable:
1) a nine-volt battery will normally indicate well above 9 volts when it is charged, and measured with a voltmeter while not attached to a load.
2) if you go out and measure your car battery in the same way you measured that nine-volt battery, you might get an interesting result.
In fact, why don't you go do that right now, and tell us what you get on your meter. Just as a check, you understand. It would be helpful if you could do it with the car running, and not. Be sure to hook that ammeter right across the battery, just as you did for the nine-volt battery, or right across the alternator outputs.
*holds out empty hand*.
do you see what i am holding, tinsel?
that is right. i am holding NOTHING.
because NOTHING,
is the amount of USEFULNESS,
that you have contributed,
to this thread.
*extends middle fingers*
do you see what i am holding now, tinsel?
that is right. i am holding my opinion of you.
because 2 birds flying,
is my opinion,
of your opinion.
*opens front door*
do you see what i am holding now, tinsel?
that is right. i'm holding the ******** front door open.
because i'm walking away from these ******** forums, forever.
i have had enough.
enough of the:
unlimited unimportance,
defocusing rambling,
auto-denialism,
hardwired unchangability,
6-feet-under-burial-of-the-truth,
snide viciousness,
bottomless negativity,
ultimate-denial-of-relevancy,
and soul-level-destruction-of-my-meaning,
to be found here.
i am tired of having my dreams needlessly **** upon.
i am tired of having my motivation STOLEN, by those who will never contribute.
i am tired of total ********* like koen1 and hans, making vampiric-touch-attacks, against the quality of my life.
to extend their cursed, undead existances.
in the future, i "might" come back to share important discoveries that i have made.
i "might" even post pictures, of one of my developments.
but from this moment on,
i am cutting off overunity dot com,
from all access to my thoughts.
to say nothing of my heart.
i hope that one of you gets the honor, of solving the worlds energy problems one day.
goodbye.
Bye.
But I have to point out that you asked a question at the start of this thread, and I answered it honestly and to the best of my ability.
I do have some experience in these matters and I was, and am, willing to share with you what I have learned. But you have to be willing to receive it, which you clearly are not.
I suggest that, in the future, when you ask a question, you should be prepared to hear answers that you may not agree with.
Someday, ask someone else about hooking up your ammeter directly across a battery or power supply.
@ TinselKoala:
I agree with your assessment of the ammeter side of the dmm. In the early days of my earth battery experiments, I was only getting about12-15 mA's out of it so, I made a few changes and then made some tests. Well, I set my meter on the same 20 mA setting and .....poof! I was no longer getting any readings on this part of my meter. I first just figured I screwed up my earth battery somehow. Later, when using it to test something else, I noticed I was still not getting anything out of the amps side. So, I opened up the meter and one of the 2 fuses inside was blown. It took me a few days of driving around town to find that fuse. (I bought several of them) Suddenly, the meter was working again as it should.
Then I checked my earth battery again using a higher setting and, duh, I was now reading about 30 mA's. For a while there, I had "assumed" I had purchased a bad meter and chalked it up to bad luck on my part. Now, I set everything on the meter much higher than I think I will ever get and have only blown 1 fuse since.
I have used meters for years but always on known quantities. When working on new stuff like this, I have found it is better to err on the side of caution.
Anyway, for what it is worth, I think your advice was good.
Bill
To measure current and voltage at the same time I used to put both the ammeter and the voltmeter inline with the circuit. I later realized that the high resistance of the voltmeter kills the current, so the ammeter would always read low. Now I put the ammeter and a small resistor inline with the circuit and put the voltmeter in parallel with the small resistor. Now most of the current goes through the small resistor unimpeded so the ammeter reads okay. I wonder how many experiments would have turned out different had I known better at the time.
-Steve
http://rimstar.org wsminfo.org