If quantum physics says that Energy is only frequency... and we know all in the universe has a resonance frequency... it's impossible that DC electricity has no frequency. I'm sure that DC electricity has some kind of frequency. maybe a very very low frequency (0.000000001 Hz i.e.) or maybe an infinite frequency, but I'm sure DC electricity has not 0 energy.
I don't care what common electromagnetic energy books says, they are wrong or incomplete.
Anyone have read something about this?
i think that dc and ac are the same thing
ac is lower frequency and dc is too high to meassure..
that's my thought.
Quote from: shablol on December 21, 2008, 02:42:42 PM
i think that dc and ac are the same thing
ac is lower frequency and dc is too high to meassure..
that's my thought.
Very iteresting, thanks shablol. You say that DC electricity is like an infinite (too high) frequency.
More opinions?
Quote from: Magnethos on December 21, 2008, 01:18:33 PM
If quantum physics says that Energy is only frequency... and we know all in the universe has a resonance frequency... it's impossible that DC electricity has no frequency. I'm sure that DC electricity has some kind of frequency. maybe a very very low frequency (0.000000001 Hz i.e.) or maybe an infinite frequency, but I'm sure DC electricity has not 0 energy.
I don't care what common electromagnetic energy books says, they are wrong or incomplete.
Anyone have read something about this?
#Magnethos
Your statement;
If quantum physics says that Energy is only frequency...
I am old school and still believe as the books say; Depending on how you look at it - it is wave or particle. In other words the observer determines what he/she will see by definition of the experiment.
Now you must consider that if it is a wave - What kind of wave??? :-)
Can experiments be confused in result by looking for the wrong wave type???
Slippery Slope here when making blanket statements.............
Quote from: DrSimon on December 21, 2008, 03:50:29 PM
#Magnethos
Your statement;
If quantum physics says that Energy is only frequency...
I am old school and still believe as the books say; Depending on how you look at it - it is wave or particle. In other words the observer determines what he/she will see by definition of the experiment.
Now you must consider that if it is a wave - What kind of wave??? :-)
Can experiments be confused in result by looking for the wrong wave type???
Slippery Slope here when making blanket statements.............
Each kind of wave is a fluctuation of its own environment nature/medium. If we say that eergy is frequecy and we know energy comes from the vacuum, energy are Waves coming from the Quantum Vacuum fluctuations.
Quote from: Magnethos on December 21, 2008, 01:18:33 PM
If quantum physics says that Energy is only frequency... and we know all in the universe has a resonance frequency... it's impossible that DC electricity has no frequency. I'm sure that DC electricity has some kind of frequency. maybe a very very low frequency (0.000000001 Hz i.e.) or maybe an infinite frequency, but I'm sure DC electricity has not 0 energy.
Gee.. DC means Zero (==0) frequency. And you're wright, DC electricity really carries some energy....
Quote
I don't care what common electromagnetic energy books says, they are wrong or incomplete.
Yes, it's pretty obvious that you think so....
BTW, did you read any of those "wrong or incomplete" books?
I thought so.
Quote from: spinner on December 21, 2008, 04:11:51 PM
Gee.. DC means Zero (==0) frequency. And you're wright, DC electricity really carries some energy....
Yes, it's pretty obvious that you think so....
BTW, did you read any of those "wrong or incomplete" books?
I thought so.
Yes, I have study the common theories at school and I understand better the non-common theories.
Quote from: Magnethos on December 21, 2008, 04:05:28 PM
Each kind of wave is a fluctuation of its own environment nature/medium. If we say that eergy is frequecy and we know energy comes from the vacuum, energy are Waves coming from the Quantum Vacuum fluctuations.
#Magnethos
***Each kind of wave is a fluctuation of its own environment nature/medium.
Maybe, so how many types of waves can you identify?
**If we say that eergy is frequecy and we know energy comes from the vacuum,
So what is in a vacuum again?? Vacuum is a term and has no real meaning other than to provide someone an out for not being able to explain an underlying cause/effect.
**energy are Waves coming from the Quantum Vacuum fluctuations.
Okay now I understand "Quantum Vacuum fluctuations" are not waves, right? they in some way turn into "energy are Waves"?????
Maybe you are walking in a Mine Field with the wrong map?
Quote from: DrSimon on December 21, 2008, 04:37:05 PM
#Magnethos
***Each kind of wave is a fluctuation of its own environment nature/medium.
Maybe, so how many types of waves can you identify?
ElectroMagnetic Waves and Scalar Waves
**If we say that eergy is frequecy and we know energy comes from the vacuum,
So what is in a vacuum again?? Vacuum is a term and has no real meaning other than to provide someone an out for not being able to explain an underlying cause/effect.
It's hard to understand and hard to explain. But Quantum vacuum is like a Virtual World, a world of possibilities. I repeat that the definition is hard to understand and explain.
**energy are Waves coming from the Quantum Vacuum fluctuations.
Okay now I understand "Quantum Vacuum fluctuations" are not waves, right? they in some way turn into "energy are Waves"?????
Waves are effects of vacuum fluctuations
Maybe you are walking in a Mine Field with the wrong map?
The humanity is asking the same...
Of course DC has a vibration, the molecules are always vibrating inside the source.
As DC current flows through a conductor it is caused by vibrational pulses in one direction.
It has been said that: "There is no out-there, out there". So "frequency", high, low, or none, may only be an illusory interpretation of a brain that itself is only an illusion. ???
That said, perhaps DC is a special manifestation of "hole flow" a quantum activity where equal amounts of energy move in the opposite direction. Kind of a +1/-1 thing. A dualistic activity that we could decipher as 0.....or not. :-\
In case you haven't noticed: I don't know what the hell I'm talking about. But, it could happen; it could happen. No, really.
jt
the only frequency of DC electricity would be the gap between the electrons. That gap would be so minute and would only happen when there was a single stream rather than a current. The best explanation i hand out would be think of a length of string with balls on it. Each ball is an electron, as you move the string the balls follow (flow) now this would be one stream of electrons... Electricity has millions of electrons moving throught one point so think of millions of these strils all trying to move through the same area while bumping into things. There is no Frequency in DC electricity unless you put one through it by breaking flow then it is the frequency of the breaks. As for AC frequency you do know that the frequency counts as how many times the direction of current changes per second right? whereas DC is uni-directional. It has one direction of flow. Rather than arguing that energy comes from a quantum vacuum maybe you guys should brush up on your electricity basics huh?
OH BTW energy is different to electricity. just to clarify :)
is the classic answer the right one seems to be everyones question here. there is allot of evidence for the classical veiw but there is also a large volume of evidence collecting to show that it may not be correct but simple to use nuclear reactors alter elements by removing and depositing electrons to matter however if you remove electrons from acids with metal yuo get salts it is probably better to think of this as a decay the volume of individual pulses seems to create a steady flow i think this is what bedini is talking about with battery resonance getting all the charge to move at once to the plates and back then if this is the case a dc would be a complex harmonic not truly a dc as it does carry noise .
Quote from: AbbaRue on December 21, 2008, 05:47:40 PM
Of course DC has a vibration, the molecules are always vibrating inside the source.
As DC current flows through a conductor it is caused by vibrational pulses in one direction.
So, DC electricity has some kind of frequency/vibration. Common physics teached us that DC has no frequency. But I think that is not complete. Maybe DC electricity has no MEASURABLE frequency, but it doesn't means that it has not frequency,
One interesting aspect of DC electricity is the DC impulse, that is the instantaneous turning on or off of a DC current. The frequency makeup of a single theoretical on or off pulse contains all frequencies from 0 to Infinity (this is in the mainstream EE books, fourier analysis).
Of course real world constraints mean that the rise or fall times will take a finite amount of time. We can speed up the rise or fall time by using magnetically quenched spark gaps like Tesla did and this can give very high frequency components, that´s where the interesting stuff starts to happen (scalar waves, longitudinal waves, gravitons, temporal distortions, wormholes, faster than light propogation etc).
Tesla was certainly very interested in fast impulses and although alot of people think his main work was on AC stuff, all of his latter work was in the fast switching of DC and that´s where he saw the magic.
As far as constant DC having a frequency, maybe the voltage source will drift in value a little but if you do hold a perfectly steady voltage then in theory it has zero frequency. Of course in the real world you will always see a noise signal on top of the steady voltage, that noise has a very wide frequency makeup.
In reality "perfect" DC is impossible to achieve, there is always some frequency components to all signals.
Yucca.
Yucca and Chef
Your theories are very helpful and interesting. I also read that Tesla last investigacion were on Pulsed DC. There are some videos on youtube showing that PDC is the key to free energy devices.
The theory says that Ohm's law isn't correct. Because Ohms says when we connect a battery, current appears instantly. That is not true. Current appears ALMOST instantly and its determined by the Relaxation time in the conductor. For each material relaxation time is different. In cooper wire Relaxation time (the time when current appears) is extremely fast (1.5 * 10 ^(-19) secs) that means sub-nanoseconds. Science teached us that current appears instantly but that is not true.
So, before current appears, voltage is always present. So, we can only extract voltage from a dipole/battery without affecting it, because we kill the battery when we extract current/power. If we only extract voltage, there is not problem. Battery will be infinite. You can extract voltage from the battery and charge a collector (a capacitor, etc...) when you do this in a correct way, you can obtain 200 Volts in a capacitor in less than 1 ms. And then, you can run a device using only the capacitor charge. If you repeat this opperation unlimited times, you will get unlimited energy. So, the key is switch on and off constantly (that means Pulsed DC). That is possible and in youtube you can see the experiment and the real results. So, that is one of the biggest keys to get free energy device.
I'm also reading a 'new' book I bought some time ago called New Worlds Inside the Atom and the author explains what is really electricity, very interesting. I have also bought another one Italian book called 'Matteria e Radiazione' (Matter and Radiation) of Cesare Colangeli, he was the only one that resolved the big mistery of what is mass, what is field and what is radiation. Both books are from 1950s. Antique books but awesome interesting.
Chef
QuoteOf course, because of our concept based on the speed of light! If the frequency would be less than 1, like 0, that would mean, DC(one direction) wave propagation is faster than the speed of light, because our wavelength would be longer, so the wave have to go faster to achieve that. Is it possible?
Yes, that is possible is you use Scalar Waves. As you know ElectroMagnetic Waves are Electric + Magnetic. So, if you can cancel the magnetic compound you will get pure Electric field. Scalar waves have no propagation time because that kind of waves has an infinite speed. I mean, if you transfer information and you choose Scalar waves, that information you send will be received INSTANTLY in all the entire universe. Also, that kind of waves can pass throught all kind of materials (that includes metals). I remember that Time is a Vector in the Magnetic Spectrum. So, if you don't have magnetic spectrum the speed-time won't exists.
:D
Update 1 By the glory of God, I thought in the next idea.
I was reading what I have just wrote..
Time is all that it ISN'T instantly. I mean, if anything has infinite speed (it appears instantly in each point of the entire universe) it won't have time. In the other side, if something has a limited speed, it will have time. So, Scalar waves a.k.a Longitudinal Waves are pure Electric Fields without the Magnetic (from Electro-Magnetic energy) component, if the Scalar waves have infinite speed/instantly speed, they aren't time waves. This means that Time is inside the Magnetic Component of EM energy. The PC, devices... memories are MAGNETIC. That means that time is recorded somewhere in the universe???
I also read a similar theory about a machine that was able to see past events of the time. Like a time-camera.
Update 2
Maybe DC infinite frequency is really an unknow kind of frequency? Maybe DC frequency is not hertzian frequency and it's somekinf of harmonic frequency... who knows...
Some days ago I thought that when we change the frequency of AC electricity we AREN'T changing the electricity frequency, we're changing some other kind of a electricity component.
here's a thought to drive you nuts with then
every charge wants to find steady state at rest side by side in the case of capacitors close is good enough though even they balance if left alone long enough so all the amps are at rest with the volts this led me to making a capacitive generator and everything that came with that so you can look at it like a trace on a osciliscope everything above the line is one energy and all that is below is another how much of each do you want to move and at what cost this is were you begin impediance matching and all that. but electorstatic systems seem to work by a bit of a different system of displacing a momentery value to a new location right now like most of nature it is mostly trying to find balance but it is place and charge specific much like taking a slice of charge out of the tide
electorphorus is this kind of momentery time displacement at work move enough long enough and you could move the globe closer to the sun but were are you going to put the charge. if you ground an item and put it in a well insulated package at high tide and then check for electron volts at low tide without touching the item you will be suprised how much energy there really is now times that by it's volume of tide reze and fall and you will be amazed how much power there is holding the moon in orbit and even this is in fluxuation for the phase of the moon and time of year it's really all about the tention the amps will follow .
today was a good day as i always wanted to really play with resonance and impedance matching but never had a size of system to really see how it worked at large but today i did and it was all i ever thought and more it was beautiful but still need to learn more now i understand why tesla wanted such high voltages because it's all you need to move the world.
Awesome information :)
I also know High Voltage is one of the most important keys to get free energy. When we connect the 2 poles of a battery we're dissipating energy, this process is called Entropy. There is an opposite process called Negentropy and that is when you recover the energy from the vacuum (you absorbs instead of dissipate the energy). And I know you can get more energy in that process when your voltage source is high.
there is really so much i do not know about physics and electricity but i have learned allot as well and hope to learn more over the years i learned most people do not realize how to see what is possible it is why we progress so slowly. but believe this has a purpose. i realized this within myself as if most of my life was the precursser to or for some later event or knowledge in all the bazarre things we see there is a thread that seems to come together if we just keep our minds open i see this as being true even with tesla his life was built apon what he learned along the way not just instant genius as some people seem to veiw it but rather memory built of experience.
the thread you started here is kind of the same way you said DC to frequency. DC as a steady state of tension and flow nature has many and some electric components react well to this state of affairs as resisters do not alter with ac power i think this is not entirely correct as have seen some evidence to this effect but for most things it is true and for most people it is true and an absolute.
at the other end of the scale we have gamma ray bursts at tremendous frequencies almost as if it was a full circle from extreme to extreme we can generate most common frequencies and some exotic as well and through all this there is a dsetruction of the universe as well as a construction watch the process and don't get to fixated on making it this or that it really is wonderfull. own the language and the knowledge.
I have post some information in other post here inside the Half-Baked idea, and I think we're not measurint the energy frequency, we're measuring other component of the energy and we think we're measuring the own's electricity frequency. I say this because since electricity is ElectroMagnetic energy, if we change the frequency of the electricity, the colour of the spark must change too. Electricity is inside the visible light spectrum because we can see it, of course, change the frequency and electricity colour MUST change. In practise, this doesn't happens. But I have seen different sparks colours. I think we're changing the frequency of the positive-negative voltage oscillation. But not the electricity frequency. For that reason, DC electricity has not Measurable frequency because voltage in DC is not oscillating. But DC has a frequency.
Very usefull information what you say about gamma rays. I think that could be coming from Cosmic rays, maybe... cosmic rays have an extremely high frequency and they are radiating all the universe all time.
You have reply to that post about what we're really measuring. I will reply to your message right now in the other post.
Quote from: Magnethos on December 21, 2008, 01:18:33 PM
If quantum physics says that Energy is only frequency... and we know all in the universe has a resonance frequency... it's impossible that DC electricity has no frequency. I'm sure that DC electricity has some kind of frequency. maybe a very very low frequency (0.000000001 Hz i.e.) or maybe an infinite frequency, but I'm sure DC electricity has not 0 energy.
I don't care what common electromagnetic energy books says, they are wrong or incomplete.
Anyone have read something about this?
Dc electricity has a frequency that is *usually* not predictable due to the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle. System(s!) that solve the uncertainty principle unleash the potential energy of the universe. Dc electric frequency can not be adequately measured with oscilloscopes because the system power output conforms to a narrow frequency distribution, which corresponds to the bi-directional movement of the involved atoms. Both the measurement device and the generator in this case determine the wavelength of the induced corresponding electric field.
With reference to DC current given from a battery, the frequency would be related discharge portion of the Hz cycle. The battery is charged, energy is stored in the separation of a stable chemical compound into electrically separated chemicals.The recombination of the chemicals into a stable state (dead battery) causes an electrical flow, which is then discharged into a load. The discharge time being a function of charge stored, and resistance to the flow of current. To think of it as extremely fast frequency current is incorrect, it is extremely slow. If one were to to only see an extremely small portion of a very large AC wave, one which may last years to complete one cycle, it would look as if it were a relatively constant current, though it is not, it is decreasing in time.
If DC has frequency, then it, like all other measures, are relative atleast to two things: itself, and one other thing ( the observer ). When a measurement of hertz is made, it is in cycles per second. One second is a measurement of time: "The second is the duration of 9 192 631 770 periods of the radiation corresponding to the transition between the two hyperfine levels of the ground state of the caesium 133 atom."
from http://www.bipm.org/en/si/si_brochure/chapter2/2-1/second.html (http://www.bipm.org/en/si/si_brochure/chapter2/2-1/second.html). This measure taken at 0 Kelvin.
A very high frequency obviously. If AC oscillates and DC does not ...
Then think about superconducting materials and their ability to maintain a virtual current - which would have to be DC. If a magnet can be held motionless ( relatively motionless ) above a superconductor because the magnet is creating a current in the superconductor relative in such a way as to oppose what it is creating. Diamagnetic properties, etc. It is as if a three winds are blowing, and two are blowing in such a way as to create a calm in one area relative to the three, while the strength of the third wind is weak relative to the other two.
I say three winds, because you have the general relativity of the environment, plus the magnet, along with the superconductor.
If DC has a frequency, it approaches either positive or negative infinity in a similar way the in inverse function of tangent does. Having zero frequency, in this instance -( a measure of hertz, said relative to some atom already with frequency )- would indicate, not that DC has frequency, but that DC has congruent frequency when flowing, ie the frequencies are the same.
I would have to conclude that that actual frequency of DC is physically congruent while it actual measure is an inverse function of tangent relative to that which it conducts through.
Recall Peltier / Seebeck devices: IMO if the DC current is congruent, and it passes through two different elemental paths, then a heating or cooling effect is created along one of the paths in a similar manner that fluid/gas compression creates cold and hot due to the DC current being different in the circuit relative to it's own reference frame.
Aditionally, IMO, i think the notion of an electron is silly - all atomic divisions, aka, elements, are simply stable larger versions of the one unit which is ultimately the most stable ( hydrogen ). Our measure of the electron being a measure of the relative stability between atoms and their interactions which yield differences that we measure as electrons because we have to use atoms to measure these differences.
To summarize: the frequency of DC is both ( as ) fast yet relatively slow.
Quote from: jadaro2600 on December 27, 2008, 02:13:27 AM
...The second is the duration of 9 192 631 770 periods of the radiation corresponding to the ...
I find this number to be less than but really close to th US national deficit. How ironic.
hi,
evry wave is a superposition of its hiher order harmonics. e. g u can have sqr pulse by super position of some highr order sine waves.
DC is similar or u can say its having large no of components for super postion. which gives you constant with time.