Overunity.com Archives

I am looking for some explanation to the mystery metal that is on the one side of a hard drive magnet. Any info i could get would be fantastic.

Perhaps I missed you're point?

What is mysterious about the metal or what it is doing?

"Mumetal" i think but i dont know what were voting on?.

alots of Newbies are using Polls to post for the first time and most are also trolls.
don't ask me why..., i don't know.
testing forum's features perhap ?

anyway.
the metal use to shield hardrive magnets is simply mild iron, nothing special there.

So does the mild iron just redirect the magnetic field or does it... trap it in a sense. I understand that what im saying doesnt make sense but please bear with me. I do tank all of you for helping me on the subject.

The iron just provides a 'connection path' for the field. Something like 'shorting' one side of the magnet.

The unusual part is the polarization of the magnets. Most magnets are polarized at the ends. these are on the edges. The effect is the assembly seems to be magnetic on the voice coil side only.

This is very interesting. So is this the best possible "shield". To my understanding there is no material that can totally kill a magnetic field. Is this accurate? I know about the MUmetal but im not exactly sure what that is or does. To my knowlage that only blocks magnetic interference?

I would like to change my question above. Not kill a magnetic field but just block one.

Will someone tell me how to make a new topic without asking to vote on something. Sorry for the noobness :-)

Quote from: Toadsta on January 19, 2009, 12:46:13 AM
Will someone tell me how to make a new topic without asking to vote on something. Sorry for the noobness :-)

=============    Iron, will flux closing
    S              N        POL  (closed)
###############     MAGNET
    N               S        POL (output)

        -----------             Moving coil  in the Magnet field

Attention. This HD Magnets are not magnetized on -edges-!
(1 cm from ends)
2. They have 4 Poles !
3   If they flux will closed from 2 Magnets (also from 2 single magnets!)
THEN the Magnet have 2 Time the Power on ech "output"

TAT is ALL , Fully normal, notimg Mystery.


TINK this way:

Iis you connect 2 magnets face to face  tis way

  N
  #
  #
  #
  S
  N
  #
  #
  #
  S     Then the  force each side is 2 times higher than from an single magnet

   SO IF YOU connnect now an Iron plate ( size as the magnet beween the 2 Magnets,
   than you have no differentces to the first-one  !!!
   If you take this "Mystery Iron ::. YOU WILL understand TAHT IS NOT AN SHILDING !
   It is only an (magnet-flux conducting)) IRON

Gustav Pese

Pese's description is  more correct than mine.

As far as I know there is no way to shield from a magnetic field. Your only option is to 'redirect' the lines of flux.
Some may say redirection falls within the definition of 'shielding'. It does but people raise this question almost weekly.

This was very well covered in this thread.

I spoke with the inventor of the patent. My report is on the same page.

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6207.msg141226#msg141226

The implications of this are very great if you know how to apply the shielding.

Yeah, an existing magnetic field cannot be "killed", the flux is there and needs to
go somewhere. But it can be redirected through a path that is more "permeable"
to the flux than another path.

It is interesting to see how often people try to find a flux shield that actually
blocks the flux.
Obviously, all of them have the same idea in mind: if we can block the flux
on one half of a wheel that has magnets mounted on it, we can make the
wheel turn itself because we can make the attraction or rejection of the magnets
drop away on that side while the rejection or attraction on the other side
of the wheel stays the same.
Just like the idea that we could make a wheel move perpetually if we could
shield one half of the wheel from gravity.

Unfortunately there is not really a way to produce that type of shielding,
that simply makes one "pole" of a magnet "go away".
There is "shielding" that allows flux to flow through a specific path,
and so we can plan where the flux path is and thereby cause the magnetic field
to no be "projected" outside of that path.
This is what happens in your hard drive: the iron (could be nickel or cobalt)
is a very good flux path and better than the air or the other metals used
(probably nonmagnetic metals like aluminium, copper, nonmagnetic steel alloy,
that type of thing) and so the magnetic field does not extend outside of that path.
And so you don't "feel" a magnetic field outside of the flux path.
Nothing is really "shielded".

If we collect rain water in a gutter and allow it to flow to a drain, are we "shielding"
our street from rainwater? Or are we allowing the water another, easier, flow path?
;)

regards,
Koen

OKOK. I think i get the facts of "shielding". To move onto my next question. The OC MPMM. Is this a hoax? Why isnt the world working on free energy if it is not? Government problems? lol jkjk But seriously I have found quite a few "self propelled" magnet motors on the net. If any of them worked would that not solve the problem we are all tryin to figure out here?

Quote from: wattsup on January 19, 2009, 08:41:22 AM
This was very well covered in this thread.

I spoke with the inventor of the patent. My report is on the same page.

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6207.msg141226#msg141226

The implications of this are very great if you know how to apply the shielding.

Jes , but this is not the mystery metal in Harddisks.
Coal-slage . Wondering...  See this Link to shown this patent:
http://www.google.de/patents?id=bweAAAAAEBAJ&dq=7220488

Yes i have seen this b4. The only problem for me is i do not have the resources to produce this. I was kinda looking for something that an everyday kinda average joe like myself can get his/her hands on. Perhaps if the formula had precise measurements and that of the sort. Or I have been studying magnet charecteristics when u use steel/iron to minipulate the magnetic fields but they all end up putting me back to the same place.

Quote from: Toadsta on January 19, 2009, 12:41:19 PM
OKOK. I think i get the facts of "shielding". To move onto my next question.

Ok, moving on. :)

QuoteThe OC MPMM. Is this a hoax?

The what? OC MPMM? Links?

QuoteWhy isnt the world working on free energy if it is not? Government problems? lol jkjk But seriously I have found quite a few "self propelled" magnet motors on the net. If any of them worked would that not solve the problem we are all tryin to figure out here?

...
There's lots of videos on the net that claim to show self-runing permanent magnets motors. Most of them are hoaxes made by assholes
to fool people.
There are a few designs for permanent magnet motors that can and do work when built exactly right, but those are generally not
the ones of which abundant video material is available.
The Johnson pm motor for example (if I recall and spelled the name right) is claimed to actually work by a few people. But it is
apparently very difficult to get the dimensions and construction of all the parts exactly right, and even a relatively small deviation
is said to result in stalling of the motor... (or at least, that's what I have been told by a couple of guys who tried to replicate
it a couple of years ago.)

Yes, if any of the pm motors shown on the numerous videos really works, that would be the type of thing we're all trying to achieve.
Unfortunately it seems the rise of youtube also provided pranksters with the ideal platform to perform hoaxes.
Also, there are quite a lot of pm motor patent applications, patents, and designs out there... but keep in mind that a patent
may be granted and applied for even when the design does not work at all.

I for one am still looking out for a pmm design that is not extremely difficult to replicate and does work. :)

regards,
Koen

If you're still looking for a material to actually shield something from
a magnetic field, then perhaps you should try to replicate this patent application:
http://www.rexresearch.com/wadle/wadle.htm

a brief quote:
"The present invention concerns a shielding material for a magnetic shield containing coal slag; silver powder; a mixture of calcium powder, magnesium powder, and zinc powder; and silica powder. The shielding material is in powder form. In another embodiment, the present invention contemplates adding nano-silver to the shielding material. The present invention is based on the concept that the magnetic field is actually "deflected" away from the area shielded.

A magnetic shield is traditionally made of a metallic material such as steel, iron, and nickel. Because metallic materials have a strong attraction for magnetic fields, the shield traps the magnetic force and diverts it around the equipment generating heat."

If the formula they give for their powder-based magnetically shielding coating really does work as they say,
then that seems to be exactly the type of shield you're looking for: a material that actually deflects the
magnetic field, instead of just offering a better flux path like the normal "magnetic shields" do.

And the materials used are easy to obtain too. :)

Regards,
Koen

There is no mystery at all - just part of magnetic circuit called as BACK IRON , when simplest design - back iron behind of two magnetic poles
another side, upper (between is air-gap) callad as flux returning iron ...
Soft iron, Silicon iron, Nickel iron ... Cobalt iron ... dependes about what you are trying, what you did in school and how thick is your wallet ::)
Its for complete magnetic circuit - closed circuit - for getting maximum from magnets ...
Used in ALL voice coil motors, linear motors, rotary motors ...
When mentioned parts not used then efficient is very poor ...much longer wire need to be used (more ohms ...) ... lot of anomalies and misunderstandings because weak and disorganized, not concentrated m.flux,  like we see when "wonder motors".
Most of "wonder motors" are "wonder" because they have no back iron as well as no flux returning iron.
For example Newman´s motor is in reality pure iron less motor wheres forgotten flux returning iron (outer side of windings) or even back iron (inner side of magnets),
Nothing more! Thats because it needs huge km of wire for realize Lorenz law to run the motor.
cheers,
khabe

Yes, that's roughly what we said before too, that
there is no magnetic "shield" but rather a better flux path
through iron, nickel, cobalt, mumetal, whatever.

But what about that powder-based magnetic shielding material
that I posted just the other day?
I haven't tried it yet nor do I know anyone who has, so I'm not
sure if it really does deflect the magnetic field as claimed
in the patent...
But if it does, then we would actually be able to make a real
magnetic "shield" instead of just a more efficient flux path.

Anyone tried the material yet?
Anyone for a pmm design that doesn't use flux "rerouting"
but actual flux deflection? :)
At first glance it would seem a simple pmm with the rotor
magnets attracting the stator magnets and such a flux
deflector screen placed at the right point would make the
rotor spin... would it not? ;)

Regards,
Koen