Hi All,
please have a look at the videos of:
http://www.hhohhu.com
http://www.hhohhu.com/v1.htm
http://www.hhohhu.com/v2.htm
http://www.hhohhu.com/v3.htm
Did somebody yet check out their
plans ?
They say, that they need about the power
for a PC ( 100 to 300 Watts ?) to run this heater...
(Elektrolyzer)
Will it really have more heat power output
than electrical input power ?
That would be really great !
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.
Very Interesting, and professional...
OU, I dunno? They are changing the state of matter, so I think it has a good chance...
Stefan
Has to be possible VERY efficient
He seems to be using copper catalyst [a 300 degree HHo flame in atmosphere will melt Titanium [3100F]
Thats 10 times more out than in
This is what the Korean is selling here
http://www.browngas.com/eng_bestkorea/history_1.htm
> HHOHHU.com HHO heater. Is it overunity ?
Chet
Time to build
They say they have an "online shop" for part sales. Does anyone know the URL..
EDIT: This thread was interesting.. http://www.hhoforums.com/showthread.php?t=2132
One thread it's 300w consumption on the other it's 700w
Of course they won't be selling a completely built working unit. That would be too easy.
Right away a red flag pops up in my mind: Fake! Fake! Fake!
I hope that I am wrong.
RES
Think about the process
Its like the ultralight aircraft industry LIABILITY LAWYERS
If you sell plans or partial kits with disclaimer
DOABLE
Sell finished units NOT Doable U L BLDG CODES Insurance product liability ETC
None of which applies to a homeowner after reading a disclaimer and building it himself
Of course if he has a fire
He has no claim
Chet
Quote from: ramset on February 06, 2009, 10:59:08 AM
RES
Think about the process
Its like the ultralight aircraft industry LIABILITY LAWYERS
If you sell plans or partial kits with disclaimer
DOABLE
Sell finished units NOT Doable U L BLDG CODES Insurance product liability ETC
None of which applies to a homeowner after reading a disclaimer and building it himself
Of course if he has a fire
He has no claim
Chet
Is that how the ultra-light aircraft industry works? I didn't know that.
Well the liability problem makes sense, but then there are risks to the builder. See, it makes it seem potentially unsafe. I hope I am wrong and that they do develop a true working unit that they would sell on its own. Then I might consider it.
Thanks for the comment Chet.
RES
You are absolutely correct
Done improperly its an accident going somewhere to happen
Going through the underwriters lab, state and federal building codes ,then getting manufacturers insurance[on an unknown no history product]
These are things that anyone who brings a product to market, have to address
Or do it like these guys
Chet
It is an hho torch running off 2 4x4 9 plate cells. The torch is heating a heat exchanger made up of 25 copper 1/2" tubes. and some fans to push the air. Power comes from a 700w computer power supply. It seems possible. Just a question of how much heat it will actually give off. Could use some saftey features. Only has your standard bubbler and flashback arrestor.
Pmaz
Do you know are they using an electrolyte?
They don't require venting[so they say] Unless their using straight water [would be very surprised]
Chlorine or carbon monoxide are typical byproducts of electrolytes
The Anomaly of HHO and different metals is what gives this the magic
Chet
The Koreans I believe use straight water in theirs
http://www.browngas.com/eng_bestkorea/history_1.htm
40$ is no money at all for the video tutorials with parts list and all, heck they could be charging much more. The people yelling scam are just full of BS. If this can heat an entire home I might try and build one.
You're right broli, I am looking forward to you purchasing those plans and building the unit. Afterall, like you wrote, "$40 is no money at all..."
Let us know how it goes.
Broli
Ill split it with you
Only if there using straight water
Chet
some interesting inventions /knowledges here
http://www.browngas.com/eng_bestkorea/history_1.htm
from hhohhu you find mor in te center of tis link
--------------------
somes more
DAEWOO
------------------------
HHO related news try
http://www.extremehho.com/news.html
Certainly a good idea, to diffuse the great heat of the HHO flame with these coppertubes.
For me it does not look,as they need so much gas.
Have a look at my picture of a HHO flame and compare it. For this flame i had about 3 l/min 260Watt
woodpecker
HERES THE MAN WOODPECKER ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
YES Thank you Sir
You are right and copper is not the best choice for catalysis
Beautiful flame
And I know you are a true member Helping the world
Let us build this wonderful idea right here with all to share
Chet
They are using KOH.
Hi Woodpecker !
Very nice flame !
Could you share info about your system?
I would like to be able to have a flame like yours.
Thank's
Pmaz
Thanks
Then they are poisoning themselves[and all their customers ]
With either Chlorine gas or carbon monoxide[I forget which right now]
That system needs to be vented [not possible with current design]
WE WILL DO BETTER
Chet
@woodpecker
nice flame,
how do you generate this HHO with how much Watts ?
So what happens if you blow it in front of some copper tubes?
Is there the effect of enhanced heat output from the tubes ?
It seems they might use the effect for blowing more wind out of the tubes,
because they don´t put the flame directly into one copper tube.
As there is air sucked in this way from the side, it might have an additional
heating effect ??! Who knows....
At least I know, if you blow with your mouth directly into a long tube
you will not get as much air out of the tube as if you blow with your
mouth about 2 cms in front of the same tube.
Then you will get much more air out of it at the end of the tube.
This might have an effect over here with this device and the heating...?!
Regards, Stefan.
I just experimented with the copper tube heat exchanger and my little HHO torch and it does produce a fair amount of heat. I got the tubes to 160 degrees in about 20-30 minutes with a 1 inch flame. and when you lightly blow through the tubes it puts heat out the back of the pipes. I like the heat exchanger. Simple yet effective!
Ramset,
What produces poisonous gas? I've never heard anything about burning hydrogen and giving off poisonous gas. With some simple mods the system could be vented.
PMAZ
If you use an electrolyte you are not using pure water
And you get poisons
Yes venting is required
Chet
@hartiberlin, as i sad, i needed about 260 Watt for about 3 liters.
I can produce the gas with my drycell which i introduced in the "Drycell goes to Austria" thread.
I wrote there in Oktober, that the cell reaches values over faraday.
For this heater, i already cutted some copper tubes, to try it out. I will write soon about the exteriment.
@ albator 10, in the copper tube there is just steelwool, ( it should be bronzewoll but i could not find that) very pressed, and a little bit of water,i saw this in a video at youtube, and it seems, it works, you would need about 3 liters of gas /min. The more gas the better. I have two bubblers für security reasons.
You can find hundreds of videos at youtube
All the link to Woodpeckers thread
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=5788.40;topicseen
Chet
Quote from: woodpecker on February 08, 2009, 03:05:04 PM
Certainly a good idea, to diffuse the great heat of the HHO flame with these coppertubes.
For me it does not look,as they need so much gas.
Have a look at my picture of a HHO flame and compare it. For this flame i had about 3 l/min 260Watt
woodpecker
This is a very impressive flame.
With 260 Watt
Das ist echt eine dicke Flamme
Komm bitte mal nach Overunity.de
Dort ist die Heizung ebenfalls ein Thema.
helmut
The only thing I've ever read about poison being given off, is if you use water with chlorine in it. What if you use distilled water?
Quote from: ramset on February 08, 2009, 09:29:13 PM
PMAZ
If you use an electrolyte you are not using pure water
And you get poisons
Yes venting is required
Chet
Quote from: pmazz850 on February 08, 2009, 09:12:33 PM
I just experimented with the copper tube heat exchanger and my little HHO torch and it does produce a fair amount of heat. I got the tubes to 160 degrees in about 20-30 minutes with a 1 inch flame. and when you lightly blow through the tubes it puts heat out the back of the pipes. I like the heat exchanger. Simple yet effective!
Does the flame put more heat out with the copper pipes than without them ?
What about putting stainless steel wool into them ?
Will this absorb the heat better and produce more heat output ?
Didn't try the steel wool. I don't think you'll really need it. Its pretty effective. With a normal size torch flame they will give off alot of heat. My torch only gives off about a one inch flame. I will try a bigger flame and post back.
This is a great thread. What about using aluminum pipes? Or would they melt?
@Broli and Chet, I am in too, if you want to put a collection pot together.
Mark
Are there any kits yet available to build this ?
Did the company finally state some real measurements
what goes in electrical and comes out as heat ?
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.
Mark
Still looking in to this
Chet
I think these kits will become a very useful test bed for basement inventors that want to economically sidestep the danger of HHO and just experiment with low pressure hydrogen.
I have made some tests with the gas, heating a room:
roomsize: 15 Cubicm., Starttemp. 11 degree celsius
I used 14 coppertubes. Tempture was raised after 30 min at 14 degr.
total Watt used 330
For camparison, i made the same test once more with a electric heater with 450 Watt:
Starttem. 11 degree, after 30 min. Tempt. was raised to 13,5 degree.
So the gas was heating with less Watt a little bit more.
The coppertubes get quite hot, but after installing a little fan, i could touch them with bar hands.
You need to keep in mind that thermal conductivity on copper is 380 and air is only 0,025.
In your case the source of heat is burning (reaction between hydrogen and oxygen). To get most of reaction it need to be balanced so the oxygen and hydrogen need to to be optimal for high temp burning reaction. It is important because it is source of heat/energy. You just wont get much more heat from something else.
The other part is that you need to transfer heat to environment. So you need to use thermal conduction and convection (aim flame directly into tubes), and utilize thermal radiation just ... reflect maybe.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_transfer
Also to heat up all tubes they need to be well connected to conduct well. So the are near tube tangent area need to be glued with somekind of thermal glue .. Maybe square shaped tubes.
Im sure you will get better results by fixing some things ;)
What if you heat a tank of oil( like corn oil or something safe), and have it pumped through a radiator and then return to the heating tank. Mount an electric fan on the radiator. Insulate the tubes to and from the tank. Think of it like in your car. I think that would allow better thermal transfer.
Mark
As far as the fan cooling the pipes down, One pipe in the center should be longer. And then a piece of flex pipe runs off that through a funnel, to the fan. The fan only pulls heat off the one longer pipe. So the rest of the pipes should stay rather hot. Haven't confirmed it yet, but it should work.
Quote from: woodpecker on February 13, 2009, 12:19:29 PM
I have made some tests with the gas, heating a room:
roomsize: 15 Cubicm., Starttemp. 11 degree celsius
I used 14 coppertubes. Tempture was raised after 30 min at 14 degr.
total Watt used 330
For camparison, i made the same test once more with a electric heater with 450 Watt:
Starttem. 11 degree, after 30 min. Tempt. was raised to 13,5 degree.
So the gas was heating with less Watt a little bit more.
The coppertubes get quite hot, but after installing a little fan, i could touch them with bar hands.
I did this little experiment only out of couriosity, but for future tests, my too, i tend to build something different, like Mark said, with a tank, radiator and oil.
Quote from: woodpecker on February 13, 2009, 12:19:29 PM
I have made some tests with the gas, heating a room:
roomsize: 15 Cubicm., Starttemp. 11 degree celsius
I used 14 coppertubes. Tempture was raised after 30 min at 14 degr.
total Watt used 330
For camparison, i made the same test once more with a electric heater with 450 Watt:
Starttem. 11 degree, after 30 min. Tempt. was raised to 13,5 degree.
So the gas was heating with less Watt a little bit more.
The copper tubes get quite hot, but after installing a little fan, i could touch them with bar hands.
Woodpecker, The recent claims of over unity all deal with circulating monatomic hydrogen through submicron cavities that leverage the Casimir effect. the Casimir effect tries to push the sides of the cavity together if free to move but if braced apart creates an exclusion field that restricts the larger virtual particles in the time stream from flowing through the gap. Black Light Power uses cavities formed when the softer Al is leached out of a Ni-Al alloy heated to 200 C to dissassociate the impregnated hydrogen. Jovian corp is building a prototype that circulates monatomic hydrogen through stacks of conductive & insulating plates with an array of drilled submicron columns all the way through the stack -therefore what can you do at home? exclusion field cavities are hard to build because they want to self aggregate (Darpa is presently funding projects to mitigate this effect because it is limiting their nano toys). This is why BLPs catalyst is a 2 step procedure- create an alloy then leach out the softer metal. So your easiest experiment is to use heat to disassociate the hydrogen in the same pipe sourcing your flame so use a thick long pipe and heat in the middle in case you have leaks at the connectors and instead of killing yourself trying to create a skeletal catalyst experiment with creating "Casimir gaps" - try sand, lime or conductive powders in the heated tube -crystaline would be best- the facets not only create the gaps which would form the casimir geometry but they also allow the gas to diffuse through - there is a property of hydrogen diffusing though metal lattices to become monatomic naturally such that if you had a crystaline metal powder you might not even need to heat the tubes which is the method Jovian is proposing. Or any other method to make your hydrogen monatomic but this is the other reason this process is so difficult to uncover is that hydrogen wants to immediately drop energy and form a molecule -if you keep it monatomic long enough to enter a casimir cavity they become hydrinos appearing to shrink -if they bond while shrunk they cannot freely grow back to normal when exiting the field and nature has to break the bonds restoring the mon atomic energy levels and rearming them for the next cavity - if you have these cavities adjacent to each other like Jovian you can repeat this procedure over and over turning nature into a hydrino thermal rectifier.
Fran
Hi,
In the XOGEN video on youtube they show 2 way to heat a home
1- Heat a ceramic plate in a forced air heater
2- Heat water
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXo7CVFI5Sk
Quote from: ramset on February 08, 2009, 08:48:31 PM
Pmaz
Thanks
Then they are poisoning themselves[and all their customers ]
With either Chlorine gas or carbon monoxide[I forget which right now]
That system needs to be vented [not possible with current design]
WE WILL DO BETTER
Chet
You can't get chlorine gas from that. If they were using NaCl then yes. and I'm not sure how you're going to get carbon monixide either. doesn't that come from a starved flame? this has a permanent supply of fresh oxygen with the hydrogen. and where is the carbon source to begin with?
Here are some people who seems to have some great HHO results:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBedYfpu3Vc
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=InstallGuys&view=videos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8yh-mNm1IQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2jOToHPQsk
Quote fom an unsourced article...
" a special metal alloy was patented by Freedman (USA) in 1957 that spontaneously breaks water into hydrogen and oxygen with no outside electrical input and without causing any chemical changes in the metal itself. This means that this special metal alloy can make hydrogen from water for free â€" forever. "
Anybody else have any other info on this ?
Regards...
Quote from: Cap-Z-ro on February 16, 2009, 04:34:42 PM
Quote fom an unsourced article...
" a special metal alloy was patented by Freedman (USA) in 1957 that spontaneously breaks water into hydrogen and oxygen with no outside electrical input and without causing any chemical changes in the metal itself. This means that this special metal alloy can make hydrogen from water for free â€" forever. "
Anybody else have any other info on this ?
Regards.
If you find it please post info.I'll look also
A simple google search with the criteria "freedman patent 1957"served me these:
http://www.free-energy.ws/samuel-freedman.html (pdf of an article current in that day and links to patents)
http://www.nuenergy.org/experiments/chemalloy.htm (article by Samuel Freedman and offer for purchase of chemalloy LIKE rods)
http://keelynet.com/energy/chem.htm (same article with actual recipe it would seem. This last found w/ the addition of "Samuel" in search criteria)
US Patent #2,796,345
US Patent #2,927,856
Just what 3 mins of looking pulled up.
So what about results ...
Are there anything resent and noticeable ?
We've posted a feature page on this technology over at
http://peswiki.com/energy/OS:HHOHHU_--_Hydroxy_Home_Heating_Unit
I spoke with inventor Randy Bunn and his partner, Mark Akkerman last night. They filed a patent in January, and they plan to quasi open source this, similar to what we did with the Bedini_SG project at PESWiki. They are interested in utilizing our PESWiki site to house the open source information. I've linked to this OverUnity thread from that page as an additional resource for the project.
Under the "replications" section, I've cited a couple of the reports listed here at this thread at OverUnity.com. If you've done a replication, feel free to edit the above page and add your report.
I've also commenced an email discussion list specific to this project: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/HHOHHU/
Here is what I've posted in the opening of the page:
HHOHHU has developed a self-contained home heating unit, along with a hybrid furnace conversion that utilizes water as its fuel. Electrolysis is used to split the water molecule into hydrogen and oxygen, which is burned to generate the heat. Their 1.0 version of the HHOHHU draws ~450 Watts and can heat 1,000 square feet.
They sell plans for the system to enable people to build one of these from parts available from the local hardware store. A patent was filed in January 2009, just prior to making the plans available. The company is quasi open sourcing the design for further development. Devices can be made for personal use, but commercial development needs to be licensed with the company. A kit is coming soon, but they do have some of they key components, such as the two cells involved, available for purpose now. They are also working on gearing up to mass produce these.
They say they have sold hundreds of copies of the plans, and have not had any refund requests; with several known successful replications personally witnessed. While their plans describe how to make every component, they do make some of the more difficult components available for sale, such as the two cells, the case, the flash arrester, and the heat sinks.
The savings on energy is supposedly enough to pay for the materials within as little as three months. Their electrolysis system draws from the best hydroxy technology they've seen, each cell producing 2 liters per minute, at 12.5 amps and 12 volts. The key to their system is the heat exchanger that extracts the heat from the very unusual flame that has been shown to be able to melt tungstun in just a few seconds. They also put to use the heat generated from the power controller, the electrolysis, and even the fan.
TV news spot for the above heater pic Sterling posted.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHdDA_XXSps
Seems they are doing the open source thing. ;)
Quote from: ResinRat2 on February 08, 2009, 08:15:24 AM
You're right broli, I am looking forward to you purchasing those plans and building the unit. Afterall, like you wrote, "$40 is no money at all..."
Let us know how it goes.
Quote$40 isn't any money when it's on .... for free
Please don´t post copyrighted material over here !
Regards, Stefan. (admin)
Quote from: sterlinga on February 22, 2009, 01:23:12 PM
We've posted a feature page on this technology over at
http://peswiki.com/energy/OS:HHOHHU_--_Hydroxy_Home_Heating_Unit
I spoke with inventor Randy Bunn and his partner, Mark Akkerman last night. They filed a patent in January, and they plan to quasi open source this, similar to what we did with the Bedini_SG project at PESWiki. They are interested in utilizing our PESWiki site to house the open source information. I've linked to this OverUnity thread from that page as an additional resource for the project.
Please don´t post copyrighted material over here !
Regards, Stefan. (admin)
Fran:
Great explanation. You sound like a physicist. What is the Link to Jovian?
Another great idea is Kim's patent at BrownsGas company in Korea. You can burn brown's gas in a closed ceramic vessel and it turns into a self-sustaining plasma...nearly. Gas input can be turned way down and enormous heat is output.
It helps to understand water is from comets (ice) and comets are trailings of the surface of the sun....fire...that have spun off into outer space. So the fact that water can burn nearly perpetually without exaust is realizing the surface of the sun burns continuously over and over.
Robb
Quote from: hyperhho on March 03, 2009, 02:28:57 AM
Please don´t post copyrighted material over here !
Regards, Stefan. (admin)
I'm not sure what you're calling "copyrighted material". The material cited is shuff I wrote, which I posted here.
If you're referring to the phrase "HHO", I'm not an attorney, but I can't see how anyone could claim to copyright that term that has been used widely by the international, open community that has been following, tinkering, and developing the technology.
-- Sterling D. Allan
I'm guessing its the picture.
Quotefrom froarty: So your easiest experiment is to use heat to disassociate the hydrogen in the same pipe sourcing your flame so use a thick long pipe and heat in the middle in case you have leaks at the connectors and instead of killing yourself trying to create a skeletal catalyst experiment with creating "Casimir gaps" - try sand, lime or conductive powders in the heated tube -crystaline would be best- the facets not only create the gaps which would form the casimir geometry but they also allow the gas to diffuse through - there is a property of hydrogen diffusing though metal lattices to become monatomic naturally such that if you had a crystaline metal powder you might not even need to heat the tubes which is the method Jovian is proposing. Or any other method to make your hydrogen monatomic but this is the other reason this process is so difficult to uncover is that hydrogen wants to immediately drop energy and form a molecule -if you keep it monatomic long enough to enter a casimir cavity they become hydrinos appearing to shrink -if they bond while shrunk they cannot freely grow back to normal when exiting the field and nature has to break the bonds restoring the mon atomic energy levels and rearming them for the next cavity - if you have these cavities adjacent to each other like Jovian you can repeat this procedure over and over turning nature into a hydrino thermal rectifier.
Fran
This is very interesting! Do you have any more information on that? Do you refer to pure Hydrogen? What i am producing with the drycell is Hydroxy.
@Robb077, i played just around a little bit with the gas, and was putting the flame very close to the surface of a bowl of water, and the interesting thing was, that i got hundreds of very little bangs and one ore two times a bigger one. To me it looked, like the hydrogen in the water was disassociated!?
Some kind like a Plasmareaktion?! Now i imagine, to have a Flame under the water, just strong enough to get such kind of a reaction do produce even more hydrogen and heat.
Do you have any more information about this Korean patent?
woodpecker
Quote from: sterlinga on March 03, 2009, 06:05:46 PM
I'm not sure what you're calling "copyrighted material". The material cited is shuff I wrote, which I posted here.
If you're referring to the phrase "HHO", I'm not an attorney, but I can't see how anyone could claim to copyright that term that has been used widely by the international, open community that has been following, tinkering, and developing the technology.
-- Sterling D. Allan
User:
hyperhho
had posted the stuff that hhohhu.com sells.
So I removed the links.
Regards, Stefan.(admin)
Woodpecker
http://www.browngas.com/eng_bestkorea/history_1.htm
Chet
Woodpecker:
Regarding the plasma hho patent, go to Brownsgas.com and on the left index there is "patents"...go there. One is Kim's patent on a ceramic oven inputing HHO. Great heat...read the patent. Go to US Patents to see the drawings. Nothing special exotic. Just redundant burning of hho in a ceramic container with low input. Enough heat is claimed for a nursery. Sounds like over unity.
Hy all,
i just posted a video at youtube have a look, it is maybe the beginning of exploding/imploding Water ;D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1DRxZDcqsM
woodpecker
As promised yesterday, another Video is now on line! Here you can really hear the bubbles ex/imploding!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFqJi4FjybA
Greets woodpecker
Woodpecker
VERY VERY GOOD
And I agree strange ,HHO burning at 8500 feet per second VERY UNLIKELY UNBURNED HHO PUSHED INTO THE WATER FROM YOUR TORCH
Chet
PS I am working on some things to give more gas with less Watts, Will keep you /all informed
@ ramset, Yes and you know, i also made tests, where i came straight down to the surface of the water, and absolutely no water could come into the torch, and i had the same reaction, but i did`nt film.
It is the hottest spot of the flame and this point is quite at the point where the flame starts.
And when the same reaction happens under the water, then we can get lots of unburned hydrogen out of it. I already experienced it: i had the flame under the water and immediately big bubbles coming up, i lit ed them and bang!
G woodpecker
I've read all this post and it still not clear for me. Does it work or not? And if it does how much doest it cost for me to make one at home?
Thanks for any answer :)
Loki
The concept is good ,This heater they are selling ,I have not purchased their info[because they use electrolyte[poison to breath]
Doing this with pure water is my goal[no poison ] . WE are learning here [very fast ]look at browns gas
And also look at woodpeckers video's[AMAZING ]
This will happen and will be shared OPEN SOURCE at this Forum
Chet
Thank you for an answer.
Ok, i'm not an expert of any kind in this area, just heard about HHO 3 days ago when i've read an article about HHOHHU.com
I'm sitting for a two days and looking for various articles about hho and any info about hhohhu. So far for me it seems that they are just cheaters who would like to steel my money (wish i was wrong):
1. They sell just plans, not do it yourself kits or made devices;
2. People that buy their plans find then inadequate + it seems that they must buy some parts from them.
3. In all this time there is not a single unit created and posted on internet. Its either - it simply doesnt work or too hard to make.
4. There are no efficiency or any other kind of measures (not talking about independly verified).
5. Creators of hhohhu device are very unprofessional in their letters, do not answer to any question about device and its characteristics, even do not understand some terms commonly used in determining efficiency, they are not even talking about how much parts (that they claim could be bought in stores) would cost...
One of the most interesting points is - company that makes Brown gas devices havent created a heater of any kind (just cutters of metal, etc). So its either they overlooked it (not likely so) or it's not efficient.
Bottom line - from great enthusiasm i had when i learner about such heater and was ready to by already made one or buy "do it yourself kit" i went down to "its another one of these thieves..." that would like to take your money for some illusion (you may find many of such "plans" on internet). Although the technology (HHO) i've learned is very impressive and may have many possibilities.
lokiju
Hi All,
They answered my question about technical data:
"452 watts power draw will heat an area rateed for 40000 btu".
Strait convesion give 11,731 kW!
Someone else invoked 1000 sq. feets = ca 92 sq. meters.
All from 4 l/min. = 240 l/h HHO gas?
Cells use 12V x 25 A = 300W.
Efficiency 300Wh / 240 l = 1,25 W / 1L.
COP = 2,15 W / 1,25W = 1,72. not bad without
resonance or pulsed power supply.
Key here is the heat exchanging, without kalorimetric mesures we
will don't know.
Their claim for 1000 sq, feets seems to be good for very hot countries,
not for eg. UK.
Kolec
@ all,
Just wondering how to ignite (safely) the Oxy-Hydrogen.
Any advise/help is welcome.
A pilot light or an electronic spark will give you your ignition...as long as the flow of your fuel is controlled (fuel line) there will be no safety concerns.
Regards...
Thanks Cap-Z-ro for the reply.
I want to make a Hydrogen Water Heater (Boiler)
Need a fail-safe ignition and flame supervision with auto shut-down.
Do you know/recommend any commercial ready availabel module for this.
Appreciate your help.
Hi all !
I have bought the plan and video and I am building the unit.
The plan are not very well made, but they have answered all my question very fast.
I will come back in 2-3 weeks with some picture and data when I will have finish to build the furnace
Regards
@ Kampen...I would think any propane ignition system would do.
Also, albator10 should have a few answers as soon he completes his build.
Regards...
The complete running unit is for sale now! The new unit pulls less watts and builds more heat. go to www.hhohhu.com for complete details
Hi,
I started as most of you (very enthusiastic) and have bought the plans and 2 hydrogen cells from them. Since that time ( a moth ago ) I found out that there are a lot of variables that are not mentioned in the tutorials and the movies. The info on the website is quite entertaining but unprofessional.
Here is what I have done so far with the parts I bought from them (look at the picture). This is created with 2 cells. Every one of them having around 16 A on 11.7 V
My biggest disappointment is with the cells they sell ( in addition to their plans and movie tutorials). The cells are unconditioned ( please google this process and you will find out a lot more ). I am not claiming anything on their output for my low litter per minute (LPM), around 1L, from 2 cells may be coming from my inability to adjust the system. But I can say that their cells are unconditioned. The process for conditioning takes several days so it is normal from "a profit standpoint" that this is not done. I am not sure also about the grade of their stainless steal. Actually, running side by side, I have found out that the cells from NanoStart ( if you are interested google it ) behave a lot better in the production of gas and the plate reaction to the electrolyte (around 15% KOH) than the one sold by the home heaters guys. This my observation is due to 4 days conditioning for the different cell types.
My advice for the experimenters is to read this file http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Chapter10.pdf. It does not cost $40 and it is A LOT MORE useful. After that they can decide ( if they feel a need ) to buy the files sold by the heating unit guys and decide which info is more useful. It is not about building heating unit but about making a very efficient cell. Although the process is given not for a dry cell the same useful knowledge/skills can be applied to building a dry cell. Please spend time reading for it helps a lot.
Regards,
Here are links to everything in their plans. In my opinion this is a rip-off. Watch the videos for yourself:
http://www.hhohhu.com/video.htm
http://www.hhohhu.com/1a.pdf
http://www.hhohhu.com/1b.pdf
http://www.hhohhu.com/1c.pdf
http://www.hhohhu.com/1d.pdf
http://www.hhohhu.com/1e.pdf
http://www.hhohhu.com/1f.pdf
http://www.hhohhu.com/1g.pdf
http://www.hhohhu.com/2a.pdf
http://www.hhohhu.com/assemble.pdf
http://www.hhohhu.com/auto.pdf
http://www.hhohhu.com/case2.pdf
http://www.hhohhu.com/case3.pdf
http://www.hhohhu.com/CASE.pdf
http://www.hhohhu.com/CellDetail.pdf
http://www.hhohhu.com/hedetail.pdf
http://www.hhohhu.com/parts.pdf
http://www.hhohhu.com/tools.pdf
http://www.hhohhu.com/pic.htm
Hopefully this will save someone else from being scammed!
saw this article on hydrogen....seemed appropriate
http://www.physorg.com/news84421033.html
Quote from: woodpecker on March 06, 2009, 03:24:43 AM
I already experienced it: i had the flame under the water and immediately big bubbles coming up, i lit ed them and bang!
That's it!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxPiiSqHQlU&feature=related
Woodpecker,
have you tried to measure/collect/estimate the amount of gas produced by the submerged flame?
Anyway, this topic seems abandoned. Everyone'd gone way over unity or just exploded?
This is being looped in Germany As I print this!!
An HHO driven Gen set that makes the power to run it self Plus makes enuff to run the House.
Its at the German OU Site I'll look for the Link Tomorrow and post it.
Chet
keep up the good work, chet!
Chet, could we have that link, please?
regards, G.
Sup G
Start here [Helmut ]follow the links on You tube
http://www.overunity.com/10156/selfrunning-hho-system-with-400-watts-additional-output/msg302082/#msg302082 (http://www.overunity.com/10156/selfrunning-hho-system-with-400-watts-additional-output/msg302082/#msg302082)
Chet
Hi all. I'm just starting with HHO. I've been looking around for info for a while. I started to build the HHOHHU heater this week. I have made a modification to the fan system and heating unit. The size should be about the same, maybe smaller... I am not done with the configuration. I'm also keeping a list with prices of the material to give an idea of the cost and where I got the parts. It is not easy to get all the hardware for this project... at least in Québec, Canada. I like the idea of working in an "open source" basis. Collectively we can work much faster for the good of all. It's time we get some autonomy on this earth. I will get back with my results once I'm done. 2 to 3 weeks... be well.
I dont mean to pop anyone's bubble here, but I have finally gotten to the point that I think I need to say something. HHO (Brown's Gas) and the research in different areas is a great thing in my opinion, however, most of you on this forum seem to be stuck on using HHO gas with an actual flame (such as a torch), and this, in my opinion is limiting many of you from actually going somewhere with the HHO stuff.
Hi, my name is Richard Will, I am the Chairman of the Minnesota Energy Conservation Council, an Inventor of sorts, a researcher and have a fairly strong scientific background.
Ok, so what do I think you should be doing? Broaden your views on the use of HHO. Example, did you know that if you take a catalytic converter from a car, use a torch to burn off any coatings, and then, with no flame whatsoever, you blow HHO into the catalytic converter, you will see the subtrate in the cat start to glow orange or red. (I am writing this in layman's terms for people that are not up to date on things).
The new technology seems to have started in Italy, and is called an E-Cat. This is not an idea that originated with me, but is something that I think some of you may want to start looking at, because the amount of thermal energy that comes from this, defies what you may believe in physics, and it has been proven by independent scientists.
Just trying to offer up the fact that you should not get stuck on a single idea when it comes to HHO or the variety of technology surrounding it. Explore other ideas and avenues and try to make some advancements or clinical tests that can be shared with others, so that as a combined knowledge of many, that everyone together can progress.
Just my thoughts on the matter.
Richard
Have you done any Caloric testing on the Car "cats" as compared to strait resistor heat ?
The recombination which occurs in Car catalytic converters is by no means more out than in , have you studied other catalysts and found otherwise?
That being said HHO, Hydroxy Browns gas ETC needs much more attention and yes out of the box thinking,especially into its Odd reactive properties with certain elements .
With all respect
ChetKremens@gmail.com
Dear Ramset,
I am glad you asked, and are aware of other alternatives such as the use of cats. Actually, the Cat from a car puts out a high level of heat with HHO gas - far more than the use of a flame. The key, as you probably already know, is that the actual HHO gas has to pass over the substrate, with no flame whatsoever, in order to get the proper reaction.
Several things that I will divulge from our research to you: When pushing the HHO gases into the Cat, you need to do several things that are fairly easy; First, the HHO gas should be disbursed as fine and wide as possible. For our initial tests, we had a lot of success with using the brass "flashback" arrestor that you can find in the nozzle piece of a fuel oil furnace gun. At some point, when I have more time, I will take some pictures of this item and how to remove it for everyone to see, and upload the pics here for everyone. This is key, because if you try to direct HHO at that substrate through something like a torch tip, the substrate will glow orange or red and produce too much heat and will ultimately light the flame of the torch. YOU DO NOT WANT A FLAME - you only want the gases to pass over the substrate. That is why you need to disburse the gases as finely and widely as you can. If done correctly, even in a rudimentary setup, you shuld be able to get over 7-800 degrees from the lower part of the substrate within about 30-60 seconds.
The second key is that you need to enclose the bottom of the cat, so that the only thing that is flowing into the cat is the HHO gas. The reason for this is that if you do not enclose the bottom of the cat, regular air will flow into the cat and cause a lot of excess water vapor to be created. Once the substrate get the slightest bit of water on it, it will stop reacting, and then you are done.
As to your comment about other cat's, you can use a standard cat from a car, but try making some alterations to it. Using a very fine file, file some nickle "dust" from a piece of pure nickle. Put this into your cat and make sure you spread it around as well as you can. Now, with a standard torch, heat the nickle so that it becomes soft and starts to "flow" down the substrate channels. You dont want to block the channels, so don't use a lot of the nickle dust. You will find that with the addition of pure nickle, that your reaction will be much greater.
It should be noted that we have found that the HHO gas does not react through the entire substrate of the catalytic converter. In fact, we have found that the HHO gases are completely used up in the first inch or so of the substrate, and the only thing that happens beyond that point is that the HHO gases will start to turn back into water, which, as mentioned earlier, once water gets into this, you are done, until it dries completely. Water is your worst enemy in this.
Because we have spent so much time and money on what we have been working on, I am not going to divulge all of our findings on this forum, but I will give hints and suggestions if asked. As I stated earlier, when I have time, I will try to dig up some of the old pics from a few years ago from when we started working on this, so that those of you that are interested, it will help give you a foundation upon which you can build from. Any questions, other than "tell us everything", are welcome.
Rich Will; Chairman
Minnesota Energy Conservation Council
http://cloudfront.zoro.com/product/full/3AAE6_AS01.JPG (http://cloudfront.zoro.com/product/full/3AAE6_AS01.JPG)
Above, is a link or an image (since I haven't posted images to this forum in the past, I am not sure if if this will appear as an actual image or a link). You can see the nozzle for a fuel oil furnace gun. With this nozzle you can see the brass filter that we use as a "diffuser" that I mentioned above. This filter/diffuser piece actually screws into the nozzle, and is threaded. It may take some work to get the 2 pieces apart, but they will unscrew from each other. I am just taking some pics from other websites right now that will hopefully help you. Here is another pic which shows the breakdown of the nozzle:
http://www.sthilairesupply.com/Handlers/ImageHandler.ashx?im=8A100.JPG (http://www.sthilairesupply.com/Handlers/ImageHandler.ashx?im=8A100.JPG)
Now, the nice thing with this filter, that we are going to use as a diffuser, is that it does have a screw base on it, which obviously means we can easily attach it to an HHO torch or other HHO apparatus. This will not only help disburse the HHO gases, but will also help to act as a flashback arrestor.
Again, taking an image from the internet, this is what the inside of a catalytic converter looks like for those of you that are unaware:
This is what Nickle dust will look like before you add it to the cat to increase reactions:
Remember to only use a VERY small amount of nickel dust! You do not want to block passageways or the HHO gases will not be able to pass over the material.
MECC-1
Thank you very much,I will report back with results.
Chet
Chet,
For what it is worth, I'll give you this much to help you out. In our initial tests, we used a full catalytic converter with no modifications, just to test the outcome.
What we learned right off the bat, was that most catalytic converters have a resin over them, that will allow for no reaction whatsoever. The way to get around this is to take a simple propane torch and with flame, slowly move the flame over the entire surface of the catalytic converter on both ends. The resin will bubble and usually turn white. Getting rid of the resin takes a fair amount of work, as it sometimes likes to clog the shafts on the cat. Once the resin is burned off, the cat will work properly, and the Nickle can be added, but do it VERY lightly, because our first attempt at doing it kind of bombed due to the fact that we added a little too much and started plugging the channels.
The next thing I will tell you is that using the entire surface area of the cat was interesting for testing purposes, but made a couple of things VERY clear immediately. We were testing with both 1 litler per minute as well as 2 liters per minutes of the HHO gas. You will note in your own testing, that even with diffusing the gas, the the use of the entire surface area of a standard catalytic converter will result in "hot spots". By "hot spots", what I mean is that even at 2 liters per minute, it was not enough to put HHO gas into every single channel of that cat. Because of this, some channels tested out (taking laser temps from the top of the cat) at 300+ degrees, while channels only a 1/4 inch away may have had temps in the 190 degree area. Obviosuly, the reason I am telling you this is because while you will find a lot of answers yourself from test a full surface cat, when it comes right down to it, you will likely realize that you need to cut the cat open and remove the substrate and make a new housing that will work with the amount of HHO gas that you plan to use.
Along with this, you should know that we found some very interesting data through our studies and research. Very odd things, such as a small amount of the nickle, through the nuclear reaction, will actually turn into copper. Something strange occurs that actually alters the nickle's atomic properties and molecular structure and gives it the properties of copper. This does not happen immediately, but it will happen over time, which is why I suspect that Rossi has stated that the Nickle has to be "recharged" about every 6 months.
Also, as I had mentioned in an earlier post, you will find that the HHO gas does almost all, if not 100% of it's reaction on the substrate within the first inch. Thus, another clue to you that once you dissect the cat and remove the substrate, that you will want to design your own housing and heat exchange system to draw the heat off.
On a store bought cat, the temp readings at the top of the cat may read only about 300 degrees with 2 liters of HHO, however, if you stop the reaction and take temp readings from the bottom of the cat, you will note that the temps will be in the 700-800 degree range, and these temps can be realized with 60-90 seconds. These temps are consistent once they are reached, and the only reason they might lower is because of the presence of water vapor on the substrate. past this, I will let you learn what you will from your initial experiments and tests, and then we can compare some notes.
For SAFETY REASONS I will mention the following:
In our initial tests, we diffused the HHO gas into the bottom of the catalytic converter, but did not seal the bottom of the cat becayuse with figured that the hydrogen gas would rise into the substrate and there was no reason to seal the bottom of the unit. This turned out to be a bad idea one day. As it turns out, at least from our testing for the past several years, the failure to seal the bottom of the cat and make a single hole for the diffuser to go into, can result in what is deemed as an "atomic firecracker", which is extremely loud and puts off a very bright light. Kind of a nasty situation that I would just as soon help you to avoid.
Here is what we did after the explosion: We did this in a very rudimentary fashion, but it worked. The bottom of an aluminum pop can was cut off. As it turned out, for the cat we were using for initial testing, the bottom of the pop can, turned upside down, fir the hole in the cat almost perfectly. From there, we drilled a hole in the center of the pop can bottom and inserted the "diffuser", which is really the filter from the fuel oil furnace nozzle. This prevented common air from entering into the cat from the bottom and allowed for ONLY HHO gas to filter into the cat. This solved the problem, and we never had another issue with an explosion. Of course, upon learning this, we have had precision pieces made for our customized housing, but this was a lesson well learned, and I don't want others to have to lose their hearing for 3 days from the explosion.
The 700-800 degree constant transferrable heat that you can get from 300-600 watts of power on your initial tests/experiments will show you that this way of doing this has a lot of validity. Once you modify your substrate and make a custom housing, you find that you can get even greater temps with less power, and that the temps are a constant.
If I may throw a suggestion out there, think about the use of this in the way of steam, power generation and home heating. Once you have made you initial findings, modified a few obvious things and start seeing temps that are well in excess of 1000 degrees, I am sure your own thoughts will start to venture into many other ideas of how this energy can be used. Oh, and as a footnote, during the day, because the small versions of this don't need a lot of power to create the HHO needed for reactions, please take into account that solar panels will easily create enough power during the daylight hours to make plenty of HHO, and keep this completely off the grid for many hours a day.
Rich
Rich
Have you ever done a fixed loss to ambient control test ?
thx
Chet
Dear MECC-1. Normally, a catalytic converter in a car exhausting system has a purpose of cleaning the exhaust gases. What purpose it has in your device? More heat from hydrogen?
Quote from: Qwert on September 16, 2014, 11:59:29 AM
Dear MECC-1. Normally, a catalytic converter in a car exhausting system has a purpose of cleaning the exhaust gases. What purpose it has in your device? More heat from hydrogen?
Let me answer this,
In the automotive application the catalytic converter heats up, running on unburned hydrogen. The catalytic converter
takes awhile to come up to temperature after starting the engine. The catalytic converter then acts as an oven to
burn unburned components of fuel left after the engine incompletely combusts it. The very high internal temperatures
ignites other components such as carbon, probably nitrogen compounds as well. This most likely heats the converter
to even higher temperatures. Most likely it superheats water in the air so that it doesn't condense in the exhaust system,
rusting it out.
In the HHO heater system the catalytic converter simply heats up, in doing so has at least a foot in the LENR process.
If there is overunity in this process then LENR is most likely the cause. Sterling Allan and MECC have both given a lot
of secondary evidence that LENR does seem to be occurring. The fundamental purpose of catalytic burning is that there
is combustion occurring with no open flame and at a temperature below the temperature of a flame, also combustion
is occurring over a wider area of material so there is less concentration in energy produced.
I am somewhat miffed that this information is about systems with probably over twenty years in practice. But yet
we get *no* information from neither the development technicians nor repair technicians that anything interesting
is afoot with it. This is a good example in a nutshell of how suppression results in a lack of progress...
Well, we know now. Thanks to MECC for his information!
---
Also to the person building the HHOHHU unit that the catalytic portion can substitute in a superior way for the HHOHHU
copper pipe cluster bundle and this is probably obvious.
:S:MarkSCoffman
The link below is a video of someone building an experimental 30watt HHO flame. Notice
that the burning area seems to extend out about .3 * more then the length of brightened
area. You can see this as heat when he lights his cigarette. Hydrogen is said to have an
invisible flame that put out mainly UV light.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_j1U71Ih2vk
Now, I am wondering if catalytic HHO or H^2 + O heating can operate on even less energy
than it takes to produce the small 30Watt flame?
---
The second thing I would like to point out is that there are other propane catalytic heating units besides
automobile catalytic converters. They seem to need to be run for a while to clean out "manufacturing
oil" which may be the same as the resin discussed by MECC. I suspect that these operate identically
in that the use the hydrogen from the propane is used to bring the carbon up to temperature before
initiating end state burning of their propane fuel. These may be more economic ways to access HHO
burning for many people. I also suspect most of what was discussed by MECC is relevant to these
units as well.
---
While hydrogen is very light it has known deficient heating by unit volume of gas. I suspect that
that either internal combustion explosion or catalytic burning leads to the most efficient release
of the energy of hydrogen rather than flame heating.
:S:MarkSCoffman
My advice? Don't buy plans. Chet is right, we will come out with one open source from here, open source everything.
Just build using parts and run it through the water safety device. Figuring out the nozzle seems to be tough, I have taken apart a lot of lighters so far in order to rig one in the "on" position, what kind of tip is used in a welder kit?
Here is a nice how-to video on making the cell: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yItH6S_dUd0
I like the contribution that a computer power supply might be used. Something that gets a 12V, lots of current? The 110V from the wall heated up the water so much it started to melt the peanut butter jar (where I have the cell in).
Looking forward to seeing a house heater come out of this, one that's simply do-able to make.
This person is making hydrogen dry cells very effective. I use a computer power supply for the DC-in, like a laptop one?
http://www.labellasautorepair.com/fueledbywater.htm
Find you the 3/8" hoses and barbs as well as any corners.
Woodpecker eg, any link to a proper nozzle for order would be appreciated, have been working on this piece for a long time guys and this will be a nice thing to live with, heater or also heats water or cook over; that's my use for it seems like there are others too, thanks guys.