Overunity.com Archives

Energy from Natural Resources => Gravity powered devices => Topic started by: mindsweeper on February 08, 2009, 11:55:29 AM

Title: Triumphans Perpetuum Mobile Orffyreanum (ONLINE)
Post by: mindsweeper on February 08, 2009, 11:55:29 AM
For those that are interested,

http://gdz.sub.uni-goettingen.de/no_cache/en/dms/load/img/?IDDOC=294886 (http://gdz.sub.uni-goettingen.de/no_cache/en/dms/load/img/?IDDOC=294886)

Triumphans Perpetuum Mobile Orffyreanum, online and viewable to all.

Sweep.

EDIT: If anyone knows of others from Bessler that are online, please let me know.
Title: Re: Triumphans Perpetuum Mobile Orffyreanum (ONLINE)
Post by: AB Hammer on February 08, 2009, 07:47:28 PM
Greetings mindsweeper

Thank you for posting.
Title: Re: Triumphans Perpetuum Mobile Orffyreanum (ONLINE)
Post by: Thaelin on February 09, 2009, 05:08:44 AM
   Das ist nich fur der werken. Nine spreken Deutch.

        ;D

But thanks for the post. Is a great document to study.

thaelin
Title: Re: Triumphans Perpetuum Mobile Orffyreanum (ONLINE)
Post by: Chad on February 09, 2009, 11:21:59 AM
Nice one mate  :)

I have to admit i thought that a working wheel had been revealed, i nearly had a heart attack ;D

Chad.
Title: Re: Triumphans Perpetuum Mobile Orffyreanum (ONLINE)
Post by: AB Hammer on February 09, 2009, 08:43:14 PM
Don't worry Chad, that is next week. LOL
Title: Re: Triumphans Perpetuum Mobile Orffyreanum (ONLINE)
Post by: mindsweeper on February 10, 2009, 03:18:27 PM
Quote from: AB Hammer on February 09, 2009, 08:43:14 PM
Don't worry Chad, that is next week. LOL

If only that were true.

Give it another 300 years and add a great mind like Bessler to the soup, then perhaps the secret will surface.

Till then, we can dream, read, build and enhance our disappointment.
Title: Re: Triumphans Perpetuum Mobile Orffyreanum (ONLINE)
Post by: AB Hammer on February 10, 2009, 06:53:06 PM
Quote from: mindsweeper on February 10, 2009, 03:18:27 PM
If only that were true.

Give it another 300 years and add a great mind like Bessler to the soup, then perhaps the secret will surface.

Till then, we can dream, read, build and enhance our disappointment.

Well nindsweeper

Maybe I am Bessler reincarnated? ::) You posting the book may have jogged some deep memories? ::) Maybe I have stumbled on the fabled prime mover? :o Maybe Bessler's ghost came to me and give me his secret to finally clear his name in history? 8) Or maybe I am just full of it? :-[ Or maybe I now have a secret as well. ;D  We will see. LOL

Title: Re: Triumphans Perpetuum Mobile Orffyreanum (ONLINE)
Post by: hansvonlieven on February 10, 2009, 06:59:07 PM
You'll have to really pull your finger out Alan  ;D

The book is written in old German and Latin. Hard going even for scholars.

Hans

Unless, of course, if you can still remember the languages from your Bessler incarnation ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Triumphans Perpetuum Mobile Orffyreanum (ONLINE)
Post by: AB Hammer on February 10, 2009, 07:11:16 PM
Quote from: hansvonlieven on February 10, 2009, 06:59:07 PM
You'll have to really pull your finger out Alan  ;D

The book is written in old German and Latin. Hard going even for scholars.

Hans

Unless, of course, if you can still remember the languages from your Bessler incarnation ;D ;D ;D ;D

LOL  Hans

I guess we will have to see if this new prime mover works like the test in this next wheel. If it does it will be time to have a party. ;) PM sent
Title: Re: Triumphans Perpetuum Mobile Orffyreanum (ONLINE)
Post by: overtaker on February 10, 2009, 11:02:40 PM
PM sent? Can I get a PM?  :)
Title: Re: Triumphans Perpetuum Mobile Orffyreanum (ONLINE)
Post by: DrWhat on February 11, 2009, 06:46:41 AM
Alan as much as I admire your enthusiasm I still await your working wheel.

Please hurry up!

:)
Title: Re: Triumphans Perpetuum Mobile Orffyreanum (ONLINE)
Post by: mindsweeper on February 11, 2009, 06:51:49 AM
One thing's for sure, the reception of a self perpetuating wheel will be very different from Besslers day.

All the counter claims and the "hey you stole my idea" groups will be fuming..

But I hope as I'm sure others do...

Title: Re: Triumphans Perpetuum Mobile Orffyreanum (ONLINE)
Post by: sevich on February 11, 2009, 07:22:03 AM
Quote from: AB Hammer on February 10, 2009, 06:53:06 PM

QuoteMaybe I am Bessler reincarnated? ::)
I think you're full of yorself to say the least  ::)

QuoteYou posting the book may have jogged some deep memories? ::)
Why rub it in, unles you want to intentionally piss him off ?

QuoteMaybe I have stumbled on the fabled prime mover? :o
Cheerleader's have had enough !

QuoteMaybe Bessler's ghost came to me and give me his secret to finally clear his name in history? 8)
OH, God! ....for the second time, I think you're full of yourself !

QuoteOr maybe I am just full of it? :-[
Now we're gettin somewhere  ;D ;D

QuoteOr maybe I now have a secret as well. ;D 
You're starting to eco

QuoteWe will see. LOL


Finally you're making some sense!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Triumphans Perpetuum Mobile Orffyreanum (ONLINE)
Post by: AB Hammer on February 11, 2009, 11:47:22 AM
Quote from: sevich on February 11, 2009, 07:22:03 AM
I think you're full of yorself to say the least  ::)
Why rub it in, unles you want to intentionally piss him off ?
Cheerleader's have had enough !
OH, God! ....for the second time, I think you're full of yourself !
Now we're gettin somewhere  ;D ;D
You're starting to eco


Finally you're making some sense!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you sevich

You responded exactly as my statement should have been responded to. LOL
Fooling ourselves has been a very common thing. Some breakthroughs have occurred but not enough to get a runner yet. I have devised several test to work out different effects before building. One such test is the grid I posted on another string I started. Learning what kills the wheel is always the first step in understanding what you are up to, if you are to have any success in this game. One of my idea from a short time ago brought me to be able to lift 6 lbs with 1 lb the exact same distance side by side. All and all I is quite a breakthrough in itself and using it I thought I would have a running wheel. BUT!!  :'(  it would lock up due to CF trying to use it. I was over confident that I was going to have a runner and even hinted how it would be done. But a no goal, but another invention comes from it, A new kind of lift, so all is not lost.
I am now getting better weather and more time to finish these projects and they will be done. I still have the timing to finish on a wheel that I had running around 200 rpm but will it self sustain once it is done? Or will it have acceleration? This and only this will make it a runner but there is other possibilities of course. Keep and open mind and an open sketch book.
Title: Re: Triumphans Perpetuum Mobile Orffyreanum (ONLINE)
Post by: AB Hammer on February 11, 2009, 11:56:40 AM
Quote from: DrWhat on February 11, 2009, 06:46:41 AM
Alan as much as I admire your enthusiasm I still await your working wheel.

Please hurry up!

:)

Greetings Damian

I am finally getting some time to finish some of my projects. Sometimes over confidence is the only true thing that keeps inventors going. For without it, why should we even try? After disappointment after disappointment, can kill the desire and confidence but with over confidence it will even out. ;)
Title: Re: Triumphans Perpetuum Mobile Orffyreanum (ONLINE)
Post by: AB Hammer on February 11, 2009, 12:04:09 PM
Quote from: mindsweeper on February 11, 2009, 06:51:49 AM
One thing's for sure, the reception of a self perpetuating wheel will be very different from Besslers day.

All the counter claims and the "hey you stole my idea" groups will be fuming..

But I hope as I'm sure others do...



mindsweeper

You brings up a very good point in this sue happy society. But there is one thing that has to be answered and can not be disputed. Why didn't you have a running wheel then? If the design was open sourced the designer has a claim of name only of the design, but not for building. And only if it is properly posted will that even have a chance for name claim. And if open sourced anyone can build it.
Title: Re: Triumphans Perpetuum Mobile Orffyreanum (ONLINE)
Post by: DrWhat on February 11, 2009, 03:52:48 PM
Very true Alan,

I do admire your enthusiasm.

D
Title: Re: Triumphans Perpetuum Mobile Orffyreanum (ONLINE)
Post by: DrWhat on February 11, 2009, 04:03:51 PM
It may in fact be these types of web sites themselves that are used to provide evidence of "prior art".

When a design emerges (if ever!) there will be those that have posted who will contest the design saying "but that 5% of the device is based on my idea, and here are the previously posted images/details on Overunity.com or BesslerWheel.com" etc.
Title: Re: Triumphans Perpetuum Mobile Orffyreanum (ONLINE)
Post by: mindsweeper on February 11, 2009, 05:37:45 PM
Quote from: AB Hammer on February 11, 2009, 12:04:09 PM
mindsweeper

You brings up a very good point in this sue happy society. But there is one thing that has to be answered and can not be disputed. Why didn't you have a running wheel then? If the design was open sourced the designer has a claim of name only of the design, but not for building. And only if it is properly posted will that even have a chance for name claim. And if open sourced anyone can build it.

AB Hammer,

I have no idea what the outcome of posting here a valid concept and a working design would cause. If some one can post to the forum a wheel that works, then another said organization patented that design, what the legalities would be.

Has it ever been done online before ??


I would hope that the original poster would have claim to the design but I just have no idea...

EDIT: sorry for my english, it's bad I know..

Title: Re: Triumphans Perpetuum Mobile Orffyreanum (ONLINE)
Post by: hansvonlieven on February 11, 2009, 10:09:14 PM
The one thing that kills a patent is prior art. If you can prove you have published the design before the patent application the patent will not be granted. If you publish under copyright you have rights to the design.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Triumphans Perpetuum Mobile Orffyreanum (ONLINE)
Post by: AB Hammer on February 11, 2009, 10:30:45 PM
Quote from: DrWhat on February 11, 2009, 04:03:51 PM
It may in fact be these types of web sites themselves that are used to provide evidence of "prior art".

When a design emerges (if ever!) there will be those that have posted who will contest the design saying "but that 5% of the device is based on my idea, and here are the previously posted images/details on Overunity.com or BesslerWheel.com" etc.

Greetings Damian

5% is a wasted claim, but there are thousands of designs out there. How many designs have we come up with in the past that resembles something we find later? Lets say 80% But you would still have the strongest case by having a runner and they do not. Patents are made by just little changes of existing designs as well. So it would have to pretty close to make any claim for most of what most people can claim belongs to those long since dead as well, so  where do they stand now? Not so powerful.

Hans

A copyright is of course another way to start with and it is allot less expensive but it is only a small part but it helps put dates where they need to be for security of the designers ideas.
Title: Re: Triumphans Perpetuum Mobile Orffyreanum (ONLINE)
Post by: hansvonlieven on February 12, 2009, 02:59:22 PM
G'day Alan,

Did you know that you can copyright a three dimensional work of art and get better protection than with a patent. Copyright expires 50 years after the artist's death.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Triumphans Perpetuum Mobile Orffyreanum (ONLINE)
Post by: mindsweeper on February 12, 2009, 03:20:50 PM
Quote from: hansvonlieven on February 12, 2009, 02:59:22 PM
G'day Alan,

Did you know that you can copyright a three dimensional work of art and get better protection than with a patent. Copyright expires 50 years after the artist's death.

Hans von Lieven

I think it's the same for audio Hans.

But then doesen't it depend on the country of the author?
Title: Re: Triumphans Perpetuum Mobile Orffyreanum (ONLINE)
Post by: AB Hammer on February 12, 2009, 07:24:07 PM
Quote from: hansvonlieven on February 12, 2009, 02:59:22 PM
G'day Alan,

Did you know that you can copyright a three dimensional work of art and get better protection than with a patent. Copyright expires 50 years after the artist's death.

Hans von Lieven

Thanks Hans

So when I finish one of my peaces of art, I copyright it. But I will still go for the patent due to a vast number of variation possibilities. ;)
Title: Re: Triumphans Perpetuum Mobile Orffyreanum (ONLINE)
Post by: mindsweeper on February 15, 2009, 05:05:28 PM
More Orffyreus online info.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/259189/Orffyreus-Wheel# (http://www.scribd.com/doc/259189/Orffyreus-Wheel#)

Please share any online info you find.
Title: Re: Triumphans Perpetuum Mobile Orffyreanum (ONLINE)
Post by: hansvonlieven on February 15, 2009, 08:45:54 PM
Perhaps you like this Bessler wheel. I found it on a German site and liked it so much that I translated it and put it on my own website.

The wheel only works if you offer it your bath water as the writer says. I kept the German text so you can see I am not making this up.

http://keelytech.com/besslerdoppelrad.html

Hans von Lieven