I have been talking to a gentleman that spoke to John Coe at the U.S department of energy. (this is all he said she said) but he told me that the most efficient motor that is used today can only get 31-33 % efficiency, and that is at near absolute zero. Please help me understand this, if it is true, and what it means.
33% efficient, that´s really bad efficiency especially at zero kelvin lol ::).
You can buy motors nowadays that have 90% efficiency and they don´t need special cooling or anything. And you can make low torque motors like pulse motors with even higher efficiencies.
QuoteMaximum motor efficiency is 90% and
peak system efficiency using a trapezoidal controller is 85%.
link:
http://www.thingap.com/news/pdf/tg2340pr050508sw.pdf
Yes, I have brushless motors in my electric RC airplanes that are up to 90% efficient at converting the battery power into mechanical power.
Quote from: Yucca on February 26, 2009, 03:28:01 PM
33% efficient, that´s really bad efficiency especially at zero kelvin lol ::).
You can buy motors nowadays that have 90% efficiency and they don´t need special cooling or anything. And you can make low torque motors like pulse motors with even higher efficiencies.
link:
http://www.thingap.com/news/pdf/tg2340pr050508sw.pdf
Quote from: hazens1 on February 26, 2009, 05:35:18 PM
Yes, I have brushless motors in my electric RC airplanes that are up to 90% efficient at converting the battery power into mechanical power.
I know a few people that use those in their model planes. I'm still a "die-hard" glow engine user myself though ;D
yea, I thought the numbers did not make any sense. standard generators produce almost 90% too based on hp to watts output. the 30% must be something else, lost in translation.
Cameron
Hello Cameron,
Technically, there is a motor that is at least 100% efficient and maybe even higher.
The motor is brushless and is comprised of a permanent magnet rotor and a stator that contains at least two solid core windings (coils). The motor is self powering thus it doesn’t need a power supply of any kind. It may be able to perform work if its bearings are modified by means of a frictionless bearing(s) such as a magnetically suspended type of bearing.
I’ll give the link below so you can see one in action:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oB1gslDaeS4
I hope this helps,
Chess Knight
Quote from: cameron sydenham on February 26, 2009, 02:41:24 PM
I have been talking to a gentleman that spoke to John Coe at the U.S department of energy. (this is all he said she said) but he told me that the most efficient motor that is used today can only get 31-33 % efficiency, and that is at near absolute zero. Please help me understand this, if it is true, and what it means.
Hi,
I do believe, that he has ment common 4-stroke combustion engines.
But my rough calculation ist less than 31%.
Only 1 Stroke is converting the stored energy in gasoline to work.
Means 1 1/2 revolutions of the crancshaft of
the energy stored by the flywheel
is taken, just to make te motor spin 2 revolutions (for 4 strokes).
That makes 25% efficency. (Roughly calculated, not every stroke takes the same energy off the flywheel)
And a lot of the fossil energy is going into production of wasted heat and friction,
which deducts from the efficency calculation as well.
No matter how perfect you burn the gas in a 4-stroke Otto-motor,
with sophisticated injection-systems and turbos.
Its horrible principle stays since rockefeller took control.
Even a steam.engine is more efficient.
2-stroke and diesels are a bit better, but not more than 35%.
You always drain at least 65% of your fuel to the toilet.
...Same with HHO in regular cars BTW.
Maybe somebody understands what i mean and can explain that better,
since english is not my native tongue.
best,
sushi
actually marine diesels run close to 50 percent. google it.
I hear that this little dynamo is pretty darned efficient:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhRwe7ucfFs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoa-KmVu-Kg
God bless,
TS
Quote from: cameron sydenham on February 26, 2009, 02:41:24 PM
I have been talking to a gentleman that spoke to John Coe at the U.S department of energy (this is all he said, she said)
but he told me that the most efficient motor that is used today can only get 31-33 % efficiency, and that is at near absolute zero.
Please help me understand this, if it is true, and what it means.
This lady was refering to gasoline combustion motors. As mentioned in a post earlier.
He should have asked her about the best High End electrical motors but I don't think "she" cares about this knowledge.
It's not her profession to know all technological details on the lastest developments unless being fanatic in these matters.
Here is a 98% efficient halbach array & ironless axial flux solar car motor.
http://www.csiro.au/resources/pf11g.html
http://www.csiro.au/files/CSIROau/Software/SolarCar.zip
Please see the zipped attachment on close motor development and details.
Quote from: Honk on February 27, 2009, 05:47:42 AM
This lady was refering to gasoline combustion motors. As mentioned in a post earlier.
He should have asked her about the best High End electrical motors but I don't think "she" cares about this knowledge.
It's not her profession to know all technological details on the lastest developments unless being fanatic in these matters.
Here is a 98% efficient halbach array & ironless axial flux solar car motor.
http://www.csiro.au/resources/pf11g.html
http://www.csiro.au/files/CSIROau/Software/SolarCar.zip
Please see the zipped attachment on close motor development and details.
Hi Honk,
thanks a lot for the info.
Maybe offtopic,
but do you (or anybody else here) have experiences with EV Conversion kits available?
I know, that there are a lot of claims and proposals,
but i am interested in verified conclusions by users.
In germany, the conversion-market is widely open,
but there are no reliable suppliers. .. As far as of today.
The same is valid for available EV cars with "normal" prices.
Every German Motor-Company are still selling horrible combustion BS.
For good reason to them, but not for humanity.
@fritznien
I know very well, they are optimized.
And if you emulgate the Diesel with water, you are getting up to 75% efficency.
And if you use bigger flywheels and "Hit'nMiss"-technologies, there are further improvements possible.
Plus, if combined with wind power (sailing), marine transportation can be up to 95% efficient.
But i do live in a town with some cars. And i dont want to burn fossil resources anymore.
At least, a good Electric or Airpressure-driven car would be the right next step.
best,
sushi
Quote from: sushimoto on February 27, 2009, 07:29:06 AM
Hi Honk,
thanks a lot for the info.
Maybe offtopic,
but do you (or anybody else here) have experiences with EV Conversion kits available?
I know, that there are a lot of claims and proposals,
but i am interested in verified conclusions by users.
In germany, the conversion-market is widely open,
but there are no reliable suppliers. .. As far as of today.
The same is valid for available EV cars with "normal" prices.
Every German Motor-Company are still selling horrible combustion BS.
For good reason to them, but not for humanity.
Sorry, I have no connections or experiences with EV Conversion kits except finding this area interesting.
A hate inefficency, especially at work when designing electronics.
the 30% + or - makes sense for combustion. than, what is the most efficient electric motor, not a wheel or a device that is not truly prooven, one that is marketed, is it around 90 % or so??
cam
after doing some thought, I now know why it was a combustion motor that they were refering to. Somewhere in the line, a combustion motor is needed to create the electricity, something must be used to turn the generator.
What about a turbine, how about those, like a what a nuclear plant would use. this is simply a steam turbine motor, how efficient does that convert the heat into rotation.
Cam
Quote from: cameron sydenham on February 27, 2009, 11:55:23 AM
after doing some thought, I now know why it was a combustion motor that they were refering to. Somewhere in the line, a combustion motor is needed to create the electricity, something must be used to turn the generator.
What about a turbine, how about those, like a what a nuclear plant would use. this is simply a steam turbine motor, how efficient does that convert the heat into rotation.
Cam
Almost everything else is more efficient than all of these ancient machines including nuclear plants.
At least, a turbine is a bit better than most piston driven "power converters".
Compared to all of that, a solar panel is already "Overunity",
because it generates power from "nothing".
And maybe soon, the "vacuum" can be explained as easy as the sun.
There are Electric-motors existent with an efficiency of above 90%,
but they are hardly to find and even harder to buy for common use.
sadly
sushi
Quote from: chessnyt on February 26, 2009, 09:20:22 PM
Hello Cameron,
Technically, there is a motor that is at least 100% efficient and maybe even higher.
The motor is brushless and is comprised of a permanent magnet rotor and a stator that contains at least two solid core windings (coils). The motor is self powering thus it doesn’t need a power supply of any kind. It may be able to perform work if its bearings are modified by means of a frictionless bearing(s) such as a magnetically suspended type of bearing.
I’ll give the link below so you can see one in action:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oB1gslDaeS4
I hope this helps,
Chess Knight
WOW... No words... I had to see this didn't I...
Quote from: Hugo Chavez on February 27, 2009, 01:54:02 PM
WOW... No words... I had to see this didn't I...
LOL
Hugo... you are the wrong person to attract with this.
right?
greetz
sushi
Quote from: sushimoto on February 27, 2009, 02:11:49 PM
LOL
Hugo... you are the wrong person to attract with this.
right?
greetz
sushi
i have no clue what you tried to just say, sorry.
Hi all !
seems to me it is an Farady Type Lorentz force only motors or sometimes called Maxwell motor.
They are in production again after 200 years of mostly brush motors or AC motors
It is quite an ressurection and refreshment. They go to 98% efficiency.
no commutator of any kind..electronicall or mechanical
http://www.bodine-electric.com/etorq/
Wiz
The most advanced electric motor with the best efficiency is a Parallel Path motor over 98%, up to 110%. and the motor is ever cold dont produce heat.
The designers in this technology is Flynn (USA), with different aplication from Hildenbrand (USA) and Keppe(Brazil) motor, this design is also validated by an italian team (mac and keko).
The production of this motor is from this company http://www.qmpower.com/index.aspx (http://www.qmpower.com/index.aspx) QM power is the business side of Flynn.
If need for info, please contact me.
...If comparing brand new types of magnetic motors that are using MagnticTransistor effect, HildenBrand type motors are most efficient
cause they have smallest input for transfering complete magnetic flux of permanent magnet to the rotor, making them 250% efficient (including all the losses)
at lower RPMs.
I made some experiments confirmng that (still doing another set of tests), it is because of simple construction advantage that requires only surface of the core to be energized to reroute all the flux of PermanentMagnet to the rotor.surface of the core is competely energized(magnrtized) allready with small currents.
efficency when using other types of MagneticTransistor in motors:
Genesis is second,JNaudins MEP third (but must be build properly), Flynn ppath only fourth.
Wiz