Has anyone pressurized HHO yet? Besides in a Cylinder... are their any adverse effects (sparkless combustion). I'm looking at having a small pressurized system (approx 30psi) and wanted to know if anyone had experience with this.
i've had the meyer container over 60 psi several times; that's with a small amount of volume above the water. I have also exploded my cells at 30 or more psi due to unwanted back flashes, the water goes everywhere. Always wrap a hand tile around your container and use safety precautions.
I've never tested hydroxy over 90 psi before, I dont think there's ever a need to go that high, and yes, any spark of hydrogen under pressure and somethings going to give since you have oxygen in the mix.
Thanks Spewing... I have the plan of using an LPG converted car and having a 1-2 Litre (possible of up to 5 Litre without changing my idea) resivour tank. the idea is to use the LPG injectors to administer the HHO into the engine by aligning the Signal to the LPG injector to the Fuel injector. In the hopes that this will remove back fires and be a more reliable form of HHO injection. if i can get the required amount of HHO through the Injector (hence the Pressure) LPG systems run on 30-60 psi depending on the system. The plan is to cool the HHO right up to the point of injection to get as much in the cylinder as i can with the petrol. Because there "should" be no spark in the cylinder (because if there was the fuel would ignite) there "should" be not chance of back fire unless there is a chance of spontanious combustion in pressurized HHO. since the valves seal the cylinder from the intake i think this would be a lot safe and make implementation of HHO easier (partial LPG conversion). the reason for the 1-2 litre tank is i think there is a fair bit of "electrolyzer lag" from when we open the throttle to when the amount of HHO produced goes up... this cause the mix to change on acceleration and de-acceleration from that intended. With the small tanks there this should hold enough "spare" HHO to suppliment then increased demand ready to be filled up once the car de-accelerates and the demand is sub-sided. this would mean your cell would need to be able to produce enough or more than enough HHO to maintain your deired ratio mix at full RPM... Thanks for the help and i guess i'll hope for no spontanious combustion in my pressure system...
Good luck with that,,,, I've torn just about every auto injector apart i could find,, they all seem to contain the same small 4 holes in which i manage to ripp off revealing a 1mm hole... Which is still a wast of time because 1mm want let any gas threw, just enough to blow on your face or light a small flame.
I'm already thinking Solenoid valve, the electronic ones. The good thing is you can tie my electrojolt circuit into your injectors to control another injector or solenoid valve,,, it wouldn't consume nothing from your injectors power source if you wanted to do it that way.
It sounds like to me your about to go down one of those roads i've already been down.. Personally i think if you was trying to boost your gas millage youd be better off just to let it flow into your intake. I have noticed when you mix gasoline fumes with hdroxy that the car will run on fumes if hydroxy is present.
I would be very, very careful when pressurising Hydroxy. Unlike compressed hydrogen which can not burn (no oxidiser), hydroxy has the oxygen content to become a bomb.
If you research it a little you will find that extreme care has to be taken when storing hydroxy, as even sharp edges inside a container can be enough to cause this gaseous mixture to ignite. Hydroxy is far, far more dangerous than hydrogen under these conditions and shouldn't be played with this way.
Besides, I thought the whole point of hydroxy on demand was to alleviate this potentially dangerous aspect of the fuel!
Quote from: Loner on March 16, 2009, 04:59:44 AM
Oh Yes, the mixture is always ready to explode, and any error in storage can cause it.
Pressure won't blow it, but errors in the storage would.
The Idea of HHO storage IS unacceptable...
Very true, Loner.
Anything could set off the pressurised gas. It is a way to blow a wall out of your room,
if that is what you want to do.
Ok so there are some asociated problems with the basic concept... But i'm glad everyone here is all about shooting ideas down in flames...
I love it how its dangerous to use an injector with pressure behind it to inject the HHO into the combustion chamber in-time with the fuel (this would mean that the waste spark would not need to be modified) as the injector only releases when the fuel is added... Also only an idiot would attempt to jerry rig a pressurized system out of paddlepop sticks and sipper straws. So yes i will be using certified high pressure equipment and the injectors will more than likely be the ones used for LPG which are designed for a reasonable amount of flow and if memory serves stay fairly cool. But i can send you my crazy-straw and cardboard box setup in the mail if you want to try that, the compressor is an old one i had in the shed!!!
Thank you for your information...
and i will file your ideas of a storage/pool as "unacceptable" under the same area as that of dankie's wire...
Lock the Hydrogen and Oxygen up with carbon (Molecular Lock). If you do this then It will act just like LP or Natural gas and can be compressed and stored safely. If the HHO is locked into a carbon then you will need free oxygen from the atmosphere or other to ignite the fuel. You will see this in Magnagas or Syngas. These gases are Hydrogen Oxygen Carbon molecule locked.
Quote from: IronHead on March 17, 2009, 01:36:53 AM
Lock the Hydrogen and Oxygen up with carbon (Molecular Lock). If you do this then It will act just like LP or Natural gas and can be compressed and stored safely. If the HHO is locked into a carbon then you will need free oxygen from the atmosphere or other to ignite the fuel. You will see this in Magnagas or Syngas. These gases are Hydrogen Oxygen Carbon molecule locked.
Yeee haw it just keeps getting better and better doesn't it... Where'd you come up with that IronHead....
Anyways, 1982 EP0111574A1
"Thereafter the none combustible gas mixture is cooled, filtered for impurity removal, and mechanically mixed with a pre determined amount of hydrogen gas... There Results a NEW SYNTHETIC GAS.... . The synthetic gas formation also volume meters and determines the proper gas mixing ratio for establishing the desired burn rate of hydrogen gas.... " - - "The Mixture, Now Combustible, But not volatile, is entered into a combustion chamber"
US4787359 isn't as good as US4059076 I don't think.
I work with Magnagas abit. Dr. Santilli's type system. Is not so difficult as Dry Plasma Syngas systems.
Magnagas is done in water .
Also working on ways to achieve this in a standard brute force electrolysis system. A non Plasma system.
Have not figured a way to do this just yet but working on it.
Just for the record.. Syngas does not mean liquid
Nice to be aboard. I would upload a torch burning with an 1/2 inch exit port that i have got working. But its troublesum for me to do so on dialup. I may upload that to youtube.
second thought. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhcDezb7GO4
And stevie,, here is the dirty little secret you was trying to confirm :o
WARNING NOTICE, Death
I hope that got your attention!
Hydrogen under pressure i have tested with, And i have worked around it. The important part i would like to point out is that every Fuel cell Container I have worked around was always Repurable.
Meaning;
1. If a explosion was to occur the Fuel Cell Tank, OR housing was always Ruptureible. Mainly housing that break as plastic would normally break.
2. I have ONLY tested with housings that WILL explode WHEN NEEDED, At a very very Low Explosion Rate.
3. DUE to the Poorly Constructed Fuel cell containers i have worked with, And due to the fact that when an explosion accures the container simply Breaks apart.
4. I do not test with fuel cells that has super constructions, Meaning i have never tested fuel cells that was almost "Unrupterable."
WARNING;
1. It is probably Unsafe to test with such a cell that will not RUPTURE EASY.
2. Iron Containers Is probably Unsafe and Not recommended. Not that i am recommending anything other than be safe.
3. No matter if you have a Super Great pop off valve under an explosion occurrence, The pop off valve will not Do anything to cause any safety Protections of my Knowledge.
4. DO NOT TEST WITH ANY CONTAINER THAT WILL NOT EASILY EXPLODE. I DO NOT KNOW THE OUTPUT OF IT, Nor do i want to know.
When a container explodes, this shows weakness, it is good this way. Nobody here on this website INCLUDING ME knows what will happen when a fuel cell does not rupture. Pipe bombs are a bomb that will not rupture so easily. Be very careful.
I just wanted to double check to make sure all you guy's are aware of what you're doing, don't do anything stupid.
THIS WAS AND ENLIGTENMENT. KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING BEFORE YOU DO IT! YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.
I really hope that you use safety first, and when your told not to do something, that means do not do it unless you are Schooled and know for a fact what you're doing.
Spewing
Yes caution is an understatement
What happened here ?
second thought. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhcDezb7GO4
Your torch vids are encouraging
Chet
Ok but I never said that Syngas has to be dry. I said easier then Dry Syngas. Which is only one of the ways or types of processes.
I have nothing to offer you here anyway.You already know it all. Enjoy your thread !
A question was ask and answered. When i realized That it was not known how dangerous a container could be when not ruptureable i quickly brought attention to it.
I stated that i Played with hydroxy as high as 60 PSI, it was a very smart thing for me to do stating that i didn't use Fuel cells that would not rupture under explosion. Have you any ideal of a Pipe Bomb, Perhaps you should do some research on what exactly I'm pointing out here.
When i post my new fuel cell i don't want any of the guy's here getting the wrong ideal. My Reply was mostly in concern to those that may have got the ideal that i used a type of fuel cell that doesn't easily damage, Not true. Those that doesn't damage can be deadly.
I didn't realize how much you admired me, Thanks Bro.
well the origanal question remains un-answered with anything but someone's opinion of "un-acceptable". the idea of combining the HHO with another element is a good idea but i think it may be difficult to establish a small refining machine that would convert the HHO on board and on-demand. Still the idea on a larger scale simply having refining stations running on a bio-power to produce HHO to combine into this "Green" fuel would be an almost acceptable solution if you could get it to work as its just an extra pump at the servo then really...
Quote from: CrazyEwok on March 16, 2009, 12:03:01 AM
Has anyone pressurized HHO yet? Besides in a Cylinder... are their any adverse effects (sparkless combustion). I'm looking at having a small pressurized system (approx 30psi) and wanted to know if anyone had experience with this.
Yes, I have Pressurized HHO. See the second post of this thread. No, There is not any Sparkless combustion on such a low scale of 30 Psi. In order to cause a sparkles combustion you would have to pressurize the gas rapidly, to the point where change in pressure causes the gas to become heated enough to ignite. You want be going from 0 to 30 psi in the millisecond range. If you where to do so then the rapid change in pressure could cause ignition. I do not think you need to be worried about that since your fuel cell want do 0 to 30 psi in the millisecond range. It is not the pressure that causes ignition, it is the speed of the pressure that heats the gas. For example an Diesel engine will Compress the gas rapidly causing the ambient air to become very hot, hot enough to ignite the diesel. same with an petrol engine helping the gasoline to remain warm before ignition.
You can Fill an ordinary air tank up to 100 psi and pull the plug causing the ambient are to rapidly rush out. This change in pressure results in Liquid oxygen and it also freezes, do not attempt to touch it as it exits the tank because its like freon giving you a burn. As the ambient air is pumped into the Compressor the small feed line which supplies the tank with air coming from the air piston can burn you. This is also because of rapid change in pressure. You take any gas and Pressurize it rapidly and it will become hot, if the mix is explosive such as hydroxy then it would ignite. The ice engine does not cause the hydroxy to ignite due to compression, we have to have a spark. We learn from this that 0 to 120 psi is not rapid enough to cause auto ignition. So to cause Sparkless combustion you'd have to olmost have to do it purposely.
To gain Liquid hydroxy, you fill your container up to about 30, or more PSI. Then you pull the plug letting the gas rapidly out. You'll see an white cloud of gas and it will be cold to the touch. You've just converted hydroxy to an liquid. Engines love that ;)
Back when i used additives, I went from 0 to 30 psi in about 8 seconds, Theres clearly no danger in it.
Did i answer your question?
Thanks Spewing.
So its the general rules then... Increasing pressure add to the temp and release lowers it... So then a small re-inforced resivour would be perfect... To the "un-acceptables" stop reading as this has hit the "edge" of your thinking box... To everyone else... It is logically impossible to have a fuel source convert fuel on a re-active "need" basis... In other words to accelerate you first need the fuel there and then the electrolyzer replaces it. So you need a "resivour" that can hold enough fuel to bridge the gap between conversion and use. Thinking of a storage area about the size of a standard cool drink can (not an actual cool drink can but around the 500ml size) this pressurized with a determined amount of HHO inline with your delivery system. Reason would be you now have a small pool to keep up you delivery of fuel till your converter can replace it. This could also be your production scale "switch" as the pressure in your tank goes down you can have signals go to the electrolyzer to up production (you could have pre-determined efficient levels of production that would switch on and off to keep the resivour full). This all is a little bit out there for some but none the less... i have this as an idea as people are driving their cars with the fuel input reduced and using the HHO as a suppliment. But if your idling at the lights then go to accellerate your still have the same amount of petrol per cycle but less HHO per cycle so your overall fuel per cycle is down can't be good to reduce fuel per cycle when your wanting power...
HHO pressurized to 30 psi.
http://tinyurl.com/lhaq5o
:o
Same guy about 6 weeks earlier with his HHO generator hooked to a 3 gallon auxiliary tank.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUwqBhABqpo
At the end of the video he says:
"setting here in my office with me, this is perfectly safe"
I think he should go back and label all of his videos that are using pressized HHO and say how very dangerous it is, DON'T DO IT!
3 gallon is a little excessive... since i am talking less than half a litre...
well at 12 LPM I could get 3 gallons fast enough
Quote from: d3adp00l on September 12, 2009, 02:06:36 AM
well at 12 LPM I could get 3 gallons fast enough
you gotta love when someone reads one comment and thinks they understand the point...
Original idea is that instead of connecting the HHO straight to the air intake a type of pressurized system with a small reservoir incorporated. this would mean that when you accelerated you could still have the HHO required for each intake and then your system can simply catch up... in essence you would have no production lag...
ohh I am sorry, ewok, please go on and let me just get out of your way since I know nothing.
Quote from: CrazyEwok on September 12, 2009, 03:12:34 AM
you gotta love when someone reads one comment and thinks they understand the point...
Original idea is that instead of connecting the HHO straight to the air intake a type of pressurized system with a small reservoir incorporated. this would mean that when you accelerated you could still have the HHO required for each intake and then your system can simply catch up... in essence you would have no production lag...
Not exactly the nicest thing to say, eh?
I always had your same idea, but ran into the bomb thing as explained. Perhaps, once the reactor has over-capacity, it could also make some extra Hydrogen and Oxygen seperately, store that, and use as immediate responce-to-demand fuel? Not saying this for power, just for safety. Just a tiny mainstream fuel cell should do the trick? How long can the power lag be? The time for a bubble to make it from the bottom of the reactor to its outlet? Actually now, I suppose once it's a bubble, it's already kicking the previous bubble in the back, but increased pressure. Feel free to correct me, but be civil about, ok?