The homopolar motor works because there is a circular magnetic field crossing the flux in the magnet. Is it possible to mimic this circular magnetic field with permanentmagnets?
I'll let the idea be up to you guys to discuss. I will ofcourse attend the discussion, and test ideas as they come up :)
Br.
Vidar
to specify, using a circular magnetic field of a permanent magnet to induce cross flux and rotation on a different permanent magnet?
hmmm it would be quite different from mr faradays first homopolar generator, not at all a bad thing
unless maybe your referring to the actual "homopolar" aspect, meaning a current or induced output of only one pole (conventional homopolar) and attempting to achieve this not using a conductor as a rotor but another perpendicular magnetic field to create the motion
have to think of this a bit
you have a few gears turning in my head, we'l see how it plays out
i see youve given it some thought and im curious as to what you have come up with
until next time
Here is an old one to wet the appetite
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4794847282750685544
cat
I had this same thought a few days ago. I would like to know the answer to this also. Even if the idea doesn't work, it is creative thinking......and we need creative ideas if we are to achieve OU.
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1236322/homopolar_magnet_motor/
Above is a video I made of a homopolar motor. somewhere on the earth battery topic, Localjoe came up with a diagram on how to tap high voltage off of this device by using a simple coil around the rotating shaft. It will take a while but I will try to dig it up. He said something about it taking advantage of the already rotating magnetic field so I think this might be related.
Bill
I found it. It is a crude drawing but hey, you should see mine, ha ha. Anyway, if you want to read this in context, i have posted the page link here:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3500.220
Bill
Here I have made a try with four of my neos fasten in a clamp and a ferrite ringmagnet.
I can assure you that I feel a great force to the left, but I cannot say if there is a tangential force that will spin the ferrite. I need some bearings to test this out. And I do not fully understand how the ringmagnet "want to" enter the repulsive force at the right as it is suppose to spin clockwise - whether the circular magnetic field is made by a wire or with permanentmagnets.
Take a look at the pictures below, and I have photoshopped in some colors to determind the polarity. Maybe you can imagine what is happening. Maybe what's happening if I had a similar but opposite neo-configuration in the top too - forcing that upper part of the ringmagnet to the right (when the bottom is forced to the left.
Quote from: Low-Q on March 31, 2009, 03:40:05 AM
Maybe what's happening if I had a similar but opposite neo-configuration in the top too - forcing that upper part of the ringmagnet to the right (when the bottom is forced to the left.
That sounds good in theory. Glad to see someone doing experiments.
Maybe i should make those neos radially configured? I'll make a try, so here is a picture of the new setup. With this setup I could not feel anything obvious.
Another test. Now I have taken a few more magnets and arranged them as in the picture below. This made the most promising force this far.
Attached is also my "workshop". As you can see, one of my main hobbies is airborne ;D
Last night I was looking at magnetic field setups. I simulated something like your second setup. Which gave a nice circular magnet field as if it was the field of a current carrying wire. This is very interesting to say the least, because this can be tricked to act like a piece of wire that is not part of a closed loop circuit. So your second experiment should be investigated more. But you have to think carefully when doing these experiments. The length should either be completely be between the inner and outer diameter of the ring magnet. Or the complete setup should be outside of the ring magnet. If it's partially between ID/OD AND outside the forces would cancel out and little would happen.
Of course one should perform many controlled experiments to check these setups out. This is why I believe you are not the correct person for doing this low-q. Your skepticism will block your creativity.
The interesting part of the below simulation is that you need about 5 000 000 Amperes to get the same circular field strength that two 1 Tesla strong magnets give you.
Quote from: broli on April 04, 2009, 01:36:01 PM
Last night I was looking at magnetic field setups. I simulated something like your second setup. Which gave a nice circular magnet field as if it was the field of a current carrying wire. This is very interesting to say the least, because this can be tricked to act like a piece of wire that is not part of a closed loop circuit. So your second experiment should be investigated more. But you have to think carefully when doing these experiments. The length should either be completely be between the inner and outer diameter of the ring magnet. Or the complete setup should be outside of the ring magnet. If it's partially between ID/OD AND outside the forces would cancel out and little would happen.
Of course one should perform many controlled experiments to check these setups out. This is why I believe you are not the correct person for doing this low-q. Your skepticism will block your creativity.
The interesting part of the below simulation is that you need about 5 000 000 Amperes to get the same circular field strength that two 1 Tesla strong magnets give you.
"Your skepticism will block your creativity"? That is just BS broli. I am rational, but also open minded.
Well that aside. How are the magnets in the second picture aligned? Are the blue parts north pointing towards me and the reds south pointing towards me? I ask because if I use two magnets side by side where one have north pointing UP and the other have south pointing UP, I do not get the same magnetic field as in your simulation, but more like a four-leaf clover shape magnetic field.
Vidar
Yay low-q is back.
I don't exactly know what you mean by north facing you but the orientation should be obvious from the simulation.
Edit: Low-q I attached the method I knew to form the 4 leaf clover you speak of, but this is done by two repelling magnets not attracting. Also keep in mind that the circular field only arises at certain distance and not close up.
For what it is worth, here is a youtube vid of a guy that claims he has created a monopole using magnetic shielding:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ncViWzp-Jc&feature=email
I have no idea if this is real or not....just tossing it out there.
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on April 05, 2009, 05:30:55 PM
For what it is worth, here is a youtube vid of a guy that claims he has created a monopole using magnetic shielding:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ncViWzp-Jc&feature=email
I have no idea if this is real or not....just tossing it out there.
Bill
That is very real. It started with that "holy grail magnetic shielding". Yesterday I experimented with the dead battery shielding as well and noticed that
alkaline batteries are heavily attracted to magnets. But in that video he says he's not using any batteries. But he should articulate better, he sounds like he's mumbling. I'm very interesting in this as you probably know with my magnetic gate thread that I have. The most important part is the shielding.
Pirate I don't understand why you mention monopole. Monopole in what sense exactly?
in princip
is an homepolar motor near 100 jears invented
I ave on in my hand (found today)
i loked in google:
Invented 1927 by Siemens and Schuckert Werke -SSW-
it is an 220V (up to 20Am) DC ! Line power counter.
DC as line voltage was used in Germany up to 1960
(in some cities , additional to AC line supply.)
So that part ist also (ac AC Counter) using an
Alumium DISK . I will not open my device amd can not
understand that it can produce EDDY-Currents ?
Sie the LINK. the forst device i have.
click-up the pictueres that show also the inner construction.
This device will turn an counter !
So than: That is an MOTOR !
Now i will scratcing my head - and wonder...
Pese
Quote from: broli on April 05, 2009, 05:45:13 PM
That is very real. It started with that "holy grail magnetic shielding". Yesterday I experimented with the dead battery shielding as well and noticed that alkaline batteries are heavily attracted to magnets. But in that video he says he's not using any batteries. But he should articulate better, he sounds like he's mumbling. I'm very interesting in this as you probably know with my magnetic gate thread that I have. The most important part is the shielding.
Pirate I don't understand why you mention monopole. Monopole in what sense exactly?
I was just quoting what he said in his video. (Or in the written section, I don't recall which) I assumed he meant monopole as in one pole only, which is usually what is meant so, with a magnet that would mean a single pole being north or south but not both. I am not sure what HE meant but, if he is claiming a breakthrough, that would be it.
Bill
Quote from: broli on April 05, 2009, 05:24:25 PM
Yay low-q is back.
I don't exactly know what you mean by north facing you but the orientation should be obvious from the simulation.
Edit: Low-q I attached the method I knew to form the 4 leaf clover you speak of, but this is done by two repelling magnets not attracting. Also keep in mind that the circular field only arises at certain distance and not close up.
Sure you haven't forgot to switch off the wire with the circular magnetic field? Because that is how it will look if you let current flow through your magnet setup. My simulation, showing the four-leaf clover, was done by arranging the magnets exactly as you did - not with repelling magnets (Even if you get the same visual result with that). There is no reason why the magnetic field isn't going from blue to red horizontally as it does vertically. I think you have missed something, or forgot something.
Try again with a brand new simulation with ONLY magnets, and be amazed how easy it is to forget details when you simulate different setups in the same simulation project ;)
Vidar
Quote from: Pirate88179 on April 05, 2009, 05:30:55 PM
For what it is worth, here is a youtube vid of a guy that claims he has created a monopole using magnetic shielding:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ncViWzp-Jc&feature=email
I have no idea if this is real or not....just tossing it out there.
Bill
My guess:
This shielded magnet have a very weak north pole. The rest, the south-pole, is spread so much elswhere its flux density is so extremely weak that it will hardly be detected by the instrument he's using. Look how close to the north pole he must get to detect the result - he's not getting a result sometimes even there. So where is the magic?
Vidar
Quote from: Low-Q on April 06, 2009, 08:23:12 AM
Sure you haven't forgot to switch off the wire with the circular magnetic field? Because that is how it will look if you let current flow through your magnet setup. My simulation, showing the four-leaf clover, was done by arranging the magnets exactly as you did - not with repelling magnets (Even if you get the same visual result with that). There is no reason why the magnetic field isn't going from blue to red horizontally as it does vertically. I think you have missed something, or forgot something.
Try again with a brand new simulation with ONLY magnets, and be amazed how easy it is to forget details when you simulate different setups in the same simulation project ;)
Vidar
Looks like your ignorant self is back too denying every single step I do. How can you not f-ing agree on what the simulation is showing you ignorant person. I used solely magnets in that simulation and if you used 1/100 of your brain the field will make sense too. How they hell do you expect to make any progress with this beyond belief ignorance. Makes kind of my blood boil.
Quote from: Low-Q on April 06, 2009, 08:23:12 AM
There is no reason why the magnetic field isn't going from blue to red horizontally as it does vertically. I think you have missed something, or forgot something.
This is why I'm starting to hate you big time Vidar. You throw logical thinking out of the window and replace it with disinfo to sabotage others from making progress. Do you sometimes even think of the crap you spread and the damage that it makes.
If the field is orientated up that's how the ELECTRONS ARE ORIENTATED. Unless you change their orientation the field will always come out from the same spot. You cannot assume that a vertical field is the same as a horizontal field! I truely expected more from you Vidar you are a big disappointment.
Quote from: broli on April 06, 2009, 10:02:18 AM
Looks like your ignorant self is back too denying every single step I do. How can you not f-ing agree on what the simulation is showing you ignorant person. I used solely magnets in that simulation and if you used 1/100 of your brain the field will make sense too. How they hell do you expect to make any progress with this beyond belief ignorance. Makes kind of my blood boil.
This is why I'm starting to hate you big time Vidar. You throw logical thinking out of the window and replace it with disinfo to sabotage others from making progress. Do you sometimes even think of the crap you spread and the damage that it makes.
If the field is orientated up that's how the ELECTRONS ARE ORIENTATED. Unless you change their orientation the field will always come out from the same spot. You cannot assume that a vertical field is the same as a horizontal field! I truely expected more from you Vidar you are a big disappointment.
Yes, broli. That is really grown-up. Go on and hate everyone who question your results and theories, and the world will become a better place. Come on! Get over yourself, and try to look for your own faults. Look at the simulation below. What do you see? I cant see how the sum will make a circular magnetic field. Do you?
You can still hate me, even more than big time - it's all OK, but that will not change the magnetic field. I just asked you to check your results and your simulation setup once more. And you hate me for it. That is really the way to make progress!!! ;D
Quote from: pese on April 05, 2009, 09:04:54 PM
in princip
is an homepolar motor near 100 jears invented
I ave on in my hand (found today)
i loked in google:
Invented 1927 by Siemens and Schuckert Werke -SSW-
it is an 220V (up to 20Am) DC ! Line power counter.
DC as line voltage was used in Germany up to 1960
(in some cities , additional to AC line supply.)
So that part ist also (ac AC Counter) using an
Alumium DISK . I will not open my device amd can not
understand that it can produce EDDY-Currents ?
Sie the LINK. the forst device i have.
click-up the pictueres that show also the inner construction.
This device will turn an counter !
So than: That is an MOTOR !
Now i will scratcing my head - and wonder...
Pese
SORRY i forget to send some links and pictures.
-tanks to ask for that in an messager
Translating. Gleichstromzaehler = DC Cirrent Meter
(Correct COMSUMPION METER)
http://normalzeit.info/messtechnik/zaehler/z.html
http://normalzeit.info/messtechnik/zaehler/gs1.jpg
http://normalzeit.info/messtechnik/zaehler/1a.jpg
http://normalzeit.info/messtechnik/zaehler/gs2.jpg
http://normalzeit.info/messtechnik/zaehler/gs2a.jpg
http://normalzeit.info/messtechnik/zaehler/gs3.jpg
http://normalzeit.info/messtechnik/zaehler/gs3a.jpg
SURPRISING.. see above.
BECAUSE : THIS IS AN DRIVEN MOTOR , this princips must be to
use also to enlarged to Power driver Motors....
Pese
What is that yellow "doughnut" doing?
That ball of thread and the coil under looks like it works like a squirrel cage induction motor which rise RPMs as the AC-current flow increase, but with several vindings instead of the solid core single winding you'll find in normal squirrel cage induction motors.
http://normalzeit.info/messtechnik/zaehler/gs3.jpg (http://normalzeit.info/messtechnik/zaehler/gs3.jpg)
Br.
Vidar
Quote from: Low-Q on April 07, 2009, 01:57:52 PM
What is that yellow "doughnut" doing?
That ball of thread and the coil under looks like it works like a squirrel cage induction motor which rise RPMs as the AC-current flow increase, but with several vindings instead of the solid core single winding you'll find in normal squirrel cage induction motors.
http://normalzeit.info/messtechnik/zaehler/gs3.jpg (http://normalzeit.info/messtechnik/zaehler/gs3.jpg)
Br.
Vidar
Give ATTENTION !
THIS IS FOR DC use !!!
NOT AC Power-Line counter!!
I let you know
because the ASK was : It is possibel to do this with permanent Magnets.
DC powered coil are elctromagnets for same use in same application as permagnets
------------
I cant say nothing over the work of this Motor.
I will open my originalle closed Counter from 1930 nxt da and see inside,
It is the SSW 220DCVolt 20Amp type from Siemens$Schuckert
Think about, no brushes , no contacts inside.
It will work with low voltagages and 0 to 20 Amperes.
Pese
Hi pese,
Can you take some pictures of the inside as you open your meter?
Thanks,
Michel
No brushes, no contacts and DC power. That's something I would like to see :o.
http://normalzeit.info/messtechnik/zaehler/gs3.jpg
My deduction of this screen shot; It seems to be a regular dc motor where the permanent magnet is replaced by a coil like you said. To the right I also see what seems to be a brush system? If that's the case then it's nothing out of the ordinary right?
with an dc motor you can never construcht an accurate line-power-COUNTER.
that mus work within better 1% recise linearity.
this counter must count 4 watts as even 4400 watts linear.
this can not do with an cd motor.
thin about, that te voltage difference over an SHUNT-Resistor will also
have an difference fo, 1 to 1000 !
An no voltage mus lost from the 220Volts DC !!
I think it will work with lowest voltage with higher amps.
so as an N-Generator work
Pese
@ Michel
jes i will open my counter to see , and (perhaps) understand
this system. I take pics for you
Gustav Pese
Is the discussion, whether the homopolar motor will or will not work with permanentmagnets, over? If so, I would like to close the thread.
Br.
Vidar
http://otto-gb.150m.com/mag/IMG_0149.JPG
http://otto-gb.150m.com/mag/IMG_0150.JPG
http://otto-gb.150m.com/mag/IMG_0152.JPG
Here this in my opened DC POWER Counter.
IT USED PERMANENTMAGNET (Horseshoes) 2 pcs.
Aluminium Disk.
and an very low ohmic shunt resistor.
in moment i cant find the way to follow the wireing.
I must open more and to see that.
I feel that are "lost knowledges"
NEVER FIND IN MY BOOKS...
PESE
Quote from: pese on April 08, 2009, 05:34:54 PM
http://otto-gb.150m.com/mag/IMG_0149.JPG
http://otto-gb.150m.com/mag/IMG_0150.JPG
http://otto-gb.150m.com/mag/IMG_0152.JPG
QuoteHotlinking Error
We have detected a hotlinking error. Hotlinking is when you link to images or NON html files on 150m.com from another host. Hotlinking is not allowed for our FREE Accounts. Hotlinking is allowed for our paid accounts. Your account can be upgraded in the user section when you have logged in.
Quote from: broli on April 08, 2009, 06:29:25 PM
Hotlinks must work if you copy this to the browser.
Now i have an INDEX
that can clicked all pics of that device
http://otto-gb.150m.com/mag/index.html
PESE
@ Broli:
I got the same thing.
Bill