Hi folks i posted this in another forum as well but think it needs revisiting.
The Kawai motor, Bill Mullers odd-even motor uses the same principle, albeit using different methods, to enable a magnet rotor to move from pole to pole, or core to core without requiring any additional input work to do so, therefore when an electromagnet is energized we take full advantage of the benefit of using ferromagnetic cores and should have a net gain in horsepower by eliminating the work required to remove a magnet from a core.
Here is a cad pic of what i am speaking of as far as the odd-even design.
I will be building this design soon. Any thoughts on this principle are welcome.From what I understand standard electric motors have losses, the biggest losses are the counter emf and then theres the natural ferromagnetic drag or attraction back to a core, which in standard motors, brute force is used to overcome thereby ensuring the c.o.p. is below 1.0, here are some numbers,not mine, from tests on a Kawai motor. "Pure steel was used as a magnetic material. The magnetic material was 30 mm in thickness and formed to have magnetic teeth of 218 mm diameter and notches of 158 mm diameter. A ferritic magnet was used as a permanent magnet. The magnetic force of the magnet was 1,000 gauss. Electric power of 19.55 watts was applied to the electromagnets at 17 volts and 1.15 amperes. Under the above condition, a rotational number of 100 rpm, a torque of 60.52 Kg-cm and an output of 62,16 watt were obtained." and here is a quote from Bill Muller, "However, if no work is done in moving a magnetic pole around a closed path in a magnetic field, such as a rotor inside of a stator, the net effect would be that work could be extracted by the movement around the complete path without any other change in the system, giving the possibility of a perpetual motion machine that is seemingly contrary to the laws of mechanics.", "That means, efficiency greater than 100%,
an actual amplification of the available energy as opposed to a net consumption of the energy."
The design i posted seems the most simple as far as switching goes and I could use attraction or repulsion. Your thoughts are welcome.
peace love light
Nice idea Skywatcher, very similar to Bill Muller's design. Hope you have good luck building it Any plans for a video or schematics to be posted? Good luck.
Hi Xaverius, thanks for reply and encouragement. I have posted this in energetic forum as well although i will post circuit here also. I've actually changed the design for now to 3 stator coils at 180 degrees to each other, so switching is a little easier so it would be 3 phase switching. Heres the drive circuitry.
1) hall effect-a1101
2) pnp 2n3906
3) npn tip120
4) npn nte392
Hi folks, just an update on motor construction. I've finished the rotors and the stator coils and stator plate. One thing i've changed for now is the stator it is now 3 stator coil/cores instead of the 4 shown in the cad pic, switching will be easier and the geometry still cancels all attraction sufficiently. Also as stated, this design is using dual rotors sandwiching the stator plate and my concerns over stablity are not an issue, the rotors rotation by hand and briefly energizing a coil is very smooth and very torquey even at 12V. Next step is to build the timing wheel with magnets embedded and mount hall switches then wire up the drive circuitry.
heres a cad pic of the new stator layout for those who may be interested.
@SkyWatcher123,
Could you explain your electronic a little better? I see you have wired all the triggers together.
Is you your plan to fire all the coil at the same time? Also, the circuit was a little hard to read
because of the colors. Can you post a circuit with a white background?
Another question, is all the magnets facing one set of coil the same way? E.g. North against coils.
Regards,
Groundloop.
Quote from: Groundloop on April 22, 2009, 08:12:48 AM
@SkyWatcher123,
Could you explain your electronic a little better? I see you have wired all the triggers together.
Is you your plan to fire all the coil at the same time? Also, the circuit was a little hard to read
because of the colors. Can you post a circuit with a white background?
Another question, is all the magnets facing one set of coil the same way? E.g. North against coils.
Regards,
Groundloop.
Open with InfraView http://www.irfanview.com/ (http://www.irfanview.com/) select image - negative then save... :)
Hi Folks, sorry about that groundloop didnt realize there was another reply. Its a dual rotor with one rotor all same poles and other all same but opposite polarity so they attract in a sandwich config. so there is one stator plate with 3 coil/cores, as shown, in the middle of the 2 rotors and each coil is fired seperately, in repulsion or could just as well be attraction although there may be some benefits to repulsion, one after the other for 3 phase operation, using a timing wheel with magnets embedded using hall effect switches. The motor is finished, just wiring up hall switches and other circuitry now, should be ready for some tests soon. if you still need clearer circuit details let me know.
@SkyWatcher123,
Thank you for your taking time to answer my questions and
good luck with your research.
Groundloop.
One more thing, yes groundloop i just noticed the circuit is wrong here is the updated circuit and another view of the motor.
@SkyWatcher123,
Thanks for the updated drawing and circuit diagram. How do you plan to handle
the back emf voltage spike generated in the coils when the transistor switch off?
Will you channel all the extra energy out to a common bus by switching diodes?
[EDIT] Added a proposal (tested circuit) for your coil switch. This circuit will save you
one transistor pr. switch. Also, the back emf generated voltage is channeled
through a ultra fast switching diode and can be used to charge up batteries.
If not used then the bemf output must be tied to ground to protect the NPN
transistor.
Groundloop.
Hi groundloop, thanks for the circuit, im just using the electronic parts i have on hand and also my circuit i have tested on other motors and works well although if this motor works out ill probably try the circuit you posted with less parts. Yes im taking the flyback off with diodes as your circuit shows into cap bank or charging batteries or cap dump charger. just about ready to fire up coils and tune them to fire appropriately.
peace love light :)
Quote from: Groundloop on April 24, 2009, 11:42:33 AM
[EDIT] Added a proposal (tested circuit) for your coil switch. This circuit will save you
one transistor pr. switch. Also, the back emf generated voltage is channeled
through a ultra fast switching diode and can be used to charge up batteries.
If not used then the bemf output must be tied to ground to protect the NPN
transistor.
Groundloop.
Hi Groundloop,
May I tell you to swap the PNP transistor emitter and collector pins in your schematics? Emitter should go up towards the positive battery voltage via the 24 Ohm resistor and collector should go down to common point of the 1 KOhm resistor and the base of the NPN. Very good circuit by the way.
Thanks, Gyula
@gyulasun,
Yes, you are right.
I have updated the drawing.
I just redraw the circuit today by memory.
Sorry for the mistake.
Groundloop.
@SkyWatcher123,
Looking forward to see your test results. I have an "old" Muller motor collecting dust
and I may fire that motor up again if you get good results.
Groundloop.
Hi folks, just an update. i've hooked up 1 coil phase, still hooking up others, and it runs nicely although when driving coil with more voltage the rpm increase causes too much vibration. I'm hoping its only because the other magnets interacting with the cores are causing this and that when all 3 phases are operating it should be smooth and fast, right now with the 1 phase at 24V it has some pretty good torque and speed though obviously needs all 3 phases to function properly. The only thing I dont have for testing is an rpm meter, so any ideas on how to accurately measure rpm short of buying an expensive meter which is not an option due to funds. i do have an rc model tach., but it suffers interference from the ac light bulb frequencies. Anyway heres a pic of the motor setup.
Quote from: SkyWatcher123 on April 24, 2009, 11:24:51 PM
Hi folks, just an update. i've hooked up 1 coil phase, still hooking up others, and it runs nicely although when driving coil with more voltage the rpm increase causes too much vibration. I'm hoping its only because the other magnets interacting with the cores are causing this and that when all 3 phases are operating it should be smooth and fast, right now with the 1 phase at 24V it has some pretty good torque and speed though obviously needs all 3 phases to function properly. The only thing I dont have for testing is an rpm meter, so any ideas on how to accurately measure rpm short of buying an expensive meter which is not an option due to funds. i do have an rc model tach., but it suffers interference from the ac light bulb frequencies. Anyway heres a pic of the motor setup.
Hi Skywatcher123,
Here is a link where you can find some ideas on measuring RPM: http://peswiki.com/index.php/Tools:RPM
Also, if you place your RC model tach into a non-opac long cylinder serving as a shield to block your AC light bulb frequencies and place the opening of this cylinder as near as possible to your rotor, you may still use it? Maybe you not but I mention this any way...
rgds, Gyula
@all
About one year ago i have found the patent drawing on the kawai magnet motor.
Here some of the pages.
Some more!
Well there is some more. That is all i could find.
@all the patent number is 5436518
Its Kawai, isn't it?
Hi folks, just an update. Well with all 3 phases wired on the motor the vibration was still too large in my opinion and since my cores were the same size as the neo magnets it took alot of juice and on time duration to get the magnets off the cores which i expected however i'm now fully convinced the best way to go is either Kawai's motor design or an air core design like Garry Stanley came up with. So i am now building a bigger model of the air-core motor, w/ 12 neo's per rotor and 12 stator coils, since the small one i have now has out performed every other motor i have ever built and its design is simple and circuitry as well so reliability is high. Any thoughts on this new direction are welcome.
peace love light :)
Hi folks, been working on the dual rotor air-core motor and it is finished. Very interesting results so far, compared to the previous dual rotor air-core motor i had built that used four rotors with 6 neo's per rotor and 2 stator plates with 6 coils each for 12 coils total this 12 stator single plate, 12 magnet per rotor motor is performing better than the previous stated motor and with half the current draw and the same voltage. So it appears due to the pulse width on time being less due to the larger rotors this makes the motor more efficient even though the duty cycle is the same, very interesting. I believe Troy reed invented a motor that took advantage of that fact and Joseph Newman does the same with his commutators, many pulses at shorter pulse width's to achieve equal or greater performance with reduced input. Still testing, let me know what you folks think. Heres a few pics.
Nice work, hope you get continuing positive results in the future.