Check out the below video I posted on U tube.
It has all information you might need. Free to the world to use. Note the Note.
Tom Ferko
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5VnLjW-1iQ&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eyoutube%2Ecom%2Fmy%5Fvideos%5Fedit2&feature=player_embedded
Quote from: magnetman12003 on April 17, 2009, 12:14:35 PM
Check out the below video I posted on U tube.
It has all information you might need. Free to the world to use. Note the Note.
Tom Ferko
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5VnLjW-1iQ&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eyoutube%2Ecom%2Fmy%5Fvideos%5Fedit2&feature=player_embedded
I could see at some point the rolling magnet was repelled from the handheld magnet untill the rolling magnet got forced close enough - then it was attracted and pushed away. This is nothing new unless you can close the loop and make it spin forever.
Vidar
if you can close the loop then you're in! and so are we!
@ magnetman12003
Very interesting, thanks for posting the video. I have some questions. Where did you get the magnets and did they come painted like that (I have problems keeping mine marked)? Don't you get the same results if you leave the steel rod off and just move the pair of magnets?
EDIT: Can you make another pair of magnets with a rod and put one on each side of rolling magnet - then roll magnet slowly into the gate from outside of gate and all the way through? That would make it easier to see any repulsion entering the gate.
what if you put 2 rotating magnets connected by one steel bearing (ball)
o==o==o
"o" steel ball
"==" magnet
and allowed the middle to rotate but not move (like a bearing)
this is only speculation and first thoughts or ideas that came to mind in trying to make a rotating or circular design
looks interesting, and simple enough to replicate
does it roll uphill?
until next time
Quote from: mr_bojangles on April 18, 2009, 03:08:35 PM
what if you put 2 rotating magnets connected by one steel bearing (ball)
o==o==o
"o" steel ball
"==" magnet
and allowed the middle to rotate but not move (like a bearing)
this is only speculation and first thoughts or ideas that came to mind in trying to make a rotating or circular design
looks interesting, and simple enough to replicate
does it roll uphill?
until next time
I like your idea.. *N-----S*S-----N*
Quote from: magnetman12003 on April 17, 2009, 12:14:35 PM
Check out the below video I posted on U tube.
It has all information you might need. Free to the world to use. Note the Note.
Tom Ferko
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5VnLjW-1iQ&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eyoutube%2Ecom%2Fmy%5Fvideos%5Fedit2&feature=player_embedded
So no sticky? What if you have two.. one on both sides... ) ----- (
Tesla
Also.. I would like to see the gate stationary and see the roller tested for stickies if you have the supplies.
Thanks,
Tesla
Quote from: magnetman12003 on April 17, 2009, 12:14:35 PM
Check out the below video I posted on U tube.
It has all information you might need. Free to the world to use. Note the Note.
Tom Ferko
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5VnLjW-1iQ&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eyoutube%2Ecom%2Fmy%5Fvideos%5Fedit2&feature=player_embedded
Interesting. Thanks. I haven't seen this before.
It works even with one segment as shown but needs more gates. Resistance to pull in is a mute point. Exit rollback is a mute point. What more can I say?
3 more iron segment gates should do it. Making them now. Feel free to construct one yourself As shown-Turns clockwise Used colored electrical tape to show polaritys Please Note: Check with me first if you plan to patent my setup or make a profit from this. I have given this freely to the world to use. .
Tom Ferko
Yes, rotor and stator - one odd, one even.
I take it the idea does not work without the steel at the end of the rotor elements or without the loop.
I'll be trying this in the morning.
Quote from: magnetman12003 on April 18, 2009, 09:22:42 PM
3 more iron segment gates should do it. Making them now.
wow looks promising.
so did it work?
Inquiring minds would like to know
Hi Tom, hi BEP,
interesting idea.
Should anyone get this to continuously turn without slowing down, I would like them to try the following supplemental experiment.
In the attached image, the green line is a thick copper wire forming a continuous, low-resistance loop. This loop functions as motor coil as well as alternator generator coil, depending upon the angle of rotation. To be used on all stator assemblies.
The operation would depend on the "Wechselwirkung" of this loop, sometimes acting as generator coil, sometimes as motor coil, and most interestingly doing this with no commutator. I believe that the apparent simplicity is deceptive. As soon as the rotor turns, the operation is much more complicated than it seems.
Note the RPM with and without this supplemental coil loop. Also do a test where the steel wire is insulated from the (nickel-plated ?) magnets by a thin layer of teflon (or other) electrically non-conductive tape.
In other words, three experiments:
1- steel wire acting as magnetically and electrically-conductive loop
2- steel wire acting as magnetically-conductive loop only, electrical loop broken open
3- low resistance copper loop physically overlaid on steel wire and magnet stator assembly (repeat for both conditions 1 and 2 above)
The above experiments would greatly help in understanding this device, should it function and be reproducible.
Earl
edit: one might also try a copper loop with 10 or even 100 turns, centered-taped. Center tap goes to scope ground, 1:1 hot lead goes to a tap say at 25% and 75% of winding (2-channel scope). Try to get a look at voltage generated in this loop versus rotational position. In this case, steel wire electrically insulated to prevent any electrical loop for it.
Quote from: BEP on April 18, 2009, 09:11:24 PM
Interesting. Thanks. I haven't seen this before.
Another experiment to try:
The steel wire must be electrically insulated from the magnets with thin tape such that the steel wire is magnetically conductive, but not electrically in a closed-loop.
Then try copper wire overlay as shown in the attached image.
The two independent copper loops have no galvanic connection to each other nor to anything else.
Edit: all copper loops must have low resistance, no sloppy cold-solder joints allowed !!!
Earl
Quote from: magnetman12003 on April 17, 2009, 12:14:35 PM
Check out the below video I posted on U tube.
It has all information you might need. Free to the world to use. Note the Note.
Tom Ferko
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5VnLjW-1iQ&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eyoutube%2Ecom%2Fmy%5Fvideos%5Fedit2&feature=player_embedded
Hi Tom,
With really great respect to your hands-on activity on the forums, I feel making a small note is needed here: you may wish mentioning Graham (Rusty_Springs) as the originator of this setup, just like he introduced the tri gate concept, among some other magnetic setups.
Graham calls his present setup U bolt gate and uploaded a drawing on it at Clanzer's forum in April 12, 2009:
http://www.overunity.org.uk/showthread.php?t=290
I know you make use of his setup from the U shape side while Graham showed the rotor (i.e. the roller) rolls in front of the straight magnet side. The effect is the same I think.
So I do think Graham deserves you mention his name at least, here on this forum too, as the prompt originator of this idea.
Thanks,
Gyula
Gyula,
does Graham's device use electromagnetism generated by current flowing in a closed loop?
I was unable to even look at the link without being registered. I can understand this in order to be able to post, but being registered just to be able to look at the forum is unacceptable.
Earl
Hi Earl,
Sorry for the link need for registering, I cannot help on that.
I think the best we can do is to hear Graham's opinion on his setup, he may post his drawing here as well.
Thanks for understanding,
regards, Gyula
I can access by going to the forum root and then taking the menu tri-gate.
It will take a week or two to determine whether any successful gate is using only magnetism or magnetism *AND* electromagnetism combined. Nickel-plated magnets and steel balls and steel wire can cause an electrically conducting loop. Magnets moving in relation to this loop can induce current flow, which in turn causes electromagnetism.
Best to stay cool and calm until we know whether a linear magnetic gate can be closed into a circle and still function.
** IF ** this can be done, then experiments should be done. I would say an all-magnet motor has no chance of functioning. Whether this is still the case for a combined magnet and self-energized electromagnet device should be known shortly.
If a magnet + EM motor should be shown to function and be reproducible, the the **BIG** question is how and why?
I have held in my hands a magnet + EM motor that turned and turned and turned with no apparent power source. This particular toy had one magnet, one stator coil, one rotor coil, and a commutator. The rotor was slightly unbalanced, so gravity was also involved. In one rotational direction, it would quickly stop, but in the other sense it did not stop. The inventor did not wish to do anything with it, nor did he want his name to be connected to it. I understand how each simple part works, but it is a mystery how the complete motor functions. Even simple things can be complex.
Earl
Quote from: gyulasun on April 19, 2009, 06:25:00 AM
Hi Tom,
With really great respect to your hands-on activity on the forums, I feel making a small note is needed here: you may wish mentioning Graham (Rusty_Springs) as the originator of this setup, just like he introduced the tri gate concept, among some other magnetic setups.
Graham calls his present setup U bolt gate and uploaded a drawing on it at Clanzer's forum in April 12, 2009:
http://www.overunity.org.uk/showthread.php?t=290
I know you make use of his setup from the U shape side while Graham showed the rotor (i.e. the roller) rolls in front of the straight magnet side. The effect is the same I think.
So I do think Graham deserves you mention his name at least, here on this forum too, as the prompt originator of this idea.
Thanks,
Gyula
Yes I saw Grahams setup and saw the way he had his runner positioned. Try it -- maybe it will work for you as well as my idea. I respect Grahams work.
I have seen no videos of how he used his U bolt device however in a motor form. Have you?
I made a large bent iron rod and went on from there positioning the runner magnet as you see it.
A better mousetrap if you wish to call it that.
Remember all overunity ideas can be improved on by others. Even the device Idea I submitted.
Tom Ferko
Hi MM,
Are you claiming success ?
Does this rotate continuously under its own power ?
Look forward to your next video update on youtube.
Cheers,
Dean
Hi,
When I have a self runner working for at least one day I will post it on the U tube.
So far I have not made the other 3 segments and have to replace my worn out rotor bearing.
with a large free spinning Go Kart wheel bearing. Flywheel weight will damage a small bearing real fast. I am however feeling good about this
If made EXACTLY as described here it should put you into the ballpark. You might have to work yourself to get up to the batters position however since this whole concept is new.
Tom Ferko
Quote from: magnetman12003 on April 18, 2009, 09:22:42 PM
It works even with one segment as shown but needs more gates. Resistance to pull in is a mute point. Exit rollback is a mute point. What more can I say?
3 more iron segment gates should do it. Making them now. Feel free to construct one yourself As shown-Turns clockwise Used colored electrical tape to show polaritys Please Note: Check with me first if you plan to patent my setup or make a profit from this. I have given this freely to the world to use. .
Tom Ferko
The magnets will experience the very same things three times instead of one time. So what is the benifit with three if it won't work with only one gate?
Note: Meant as constructive, or some kind of leading questioning ;)
Vidar
Thanks for sharing the colored electrical tape idea for marking polarity! I agree with Low-Q.. one gate should be enough. I would try 5 arms on the stator instead of 3.
Tesla
A simple test with the setup in the video would be to place the ball bearing unit in a trough with a ramp on each side.
Once the ball bearings climb to the maximum height on the ramp they will roll back down and into the gate again.
According to the video the ball bearing unit should keep rolling back and forth through the gate indefinitely.
Or pick up enough speed to roll over the top of the ramp.
Question, does this unit work with 2 steel wheels instead of ball bearings or is the spherical shape needed for some reason?
Quote from: 4Tesla on April 19, 2009, 02:01:40 PM
Thanks for sharing the colored electrical tape idea for marking polarity! I agree with Low-Q.. one gate should be enough. I would try 5 arms on the stator instead of 3.
Tesla
5 stators instead of 3? I still not see the point in doing so. ;) It is just copying a non working device 3 or 5 times, or a million times - they will still not work.
Vidar
Quote from: Low-Q on April 19, 2009, 05:31:44 PM
5 stators instead of 3? I still not see the point in doing so. ;) It is just copying a non working device 3 or 5 times, or a million times - they will still not work.
Vidar
I was guessing if it didn't work with 3, maybe it was because the space was too wide between arms.
Quote from: AbbaRue on April 19, 2009, 03:32:42 PM
A simple test with the setup in the video would be to place the ball bearing unit in a trough with a ramp on each side.
Once the ball bearings climb to the maximum height on the ramp they will roll back down and into the gate again.
According to the video the ball bearing unit should keep rolling back and forth through the gate indefinitely.
Or pick up enough speed to roll over the top of the ramp.
Question, does this unit work with 2 steel wheels instead of ball bearings or is the spherical shape needed for some reason?
The problem is that the gate's polarity would have to be reversed for the ball bearing unit to travel the other direction.. if you watch closely in the video you will notice that the gate was turned over when he switched directions.
Tesla
@4Tesla
I was so caught up with watching the Ball Bearing unit I missed the part were he turned the bar over.
Thanks for pointing that out.
I would be blown away with a self runner for 1 minute :D
Quote from: 4Tesla on April 19, 2009, 02:01:40 PM
Thanks for sharing the colored electrical tape idea for marking polarity! I agree with Low-Q.. one gate should be enough. I would try 5 arms on the stator instead of 3.
Tesla
There is a possibility that a motor will work at a CERTAIN rotational speed, but
NOT at a speed greater than or less than that critical speed.
i.e. if a device is externally speeded up, it might suddenly starty working.
The number of arms or gates might affect that speed.
Paul.
Quote from: Paul-R on April 20, 2009, 09:46:49 AM
There is a possibility that a motor will work at a CERTAIN rotational speed, but
NOT at a speed greater than or less than that critical speed.
i.e. if a device is externally speeded up, it might suddenly starty working.
The number of arms or gates might affect that speed.
Paul.
Hi Paul,
I found out you are perfectly right about that. So far by using the same iron rod magnet device I described the best setup is the LIGHTEST iron rotor flywheel you can make with SHORT runner magnet arms.
Still have to use the 1.25 inch diameter bearing balls at ends of runner arms. I went from a 9 pound rotor to a cast iron 2.5 inch diameter caster wheel. Lot better action. I see the need for 4 equally spaced iron rod devices around the rotor runners. Inexpensive to build and a lot of fun to play with. Magnetically its very sensitive. With the iron wheel as the rotor flywheel many different magnetic runner arm ideas can be tried out in a few seconds. 2 arms, 3 arms, 4? take your pick. Stick them on--pop them off.
No self runner yet.
Surely someone playing with it can come up with the exact right combination of magnets, spacing, ect, ???
Tom
Not meant as a break but I feel I have to say this:
As long as you work with conservatism, there will not be any potential difference in the system that will make the motor work. No matter how the magnet/steel/bearing combinations are. All forces are related to eachother and weights up for any positive or negative force - simply because all the forces you work with do all work within the same system. How can this be so hard to understand? I understand however, the enthusiasm, and the thrill related to magnetism, but magnetism, as it is only a permanent potential energy sourche, it will never do work - as this potential does not change. You must loose magnetism over time to make it work, and that is not what we want either.
Vidar
Quote from: 4Tesla on April 19, 2009, 07:49:07 PM
I was guessing if it didn't work with 3, maybe it was because the space was too wide between arms.
You mean to reduce cogging? That should not be an issue anyway. If there is energy to spare, it does not matter if you have 1 or more stators. If you look pass eddy currents and friction, a magnetic rotor, will spin as freely as any other wheel. The difference is the unlinear motion you have with magnets, and the pendulum effect you see when the inertia isn't enough to pass by the magnets at the very end of the rotation - as you see in most of the magnet-wheel videos on youtube.
Vidar
In the FEG 5-45 you find the Floyd Sweet VTA.
He claims that certain types of magnets resonate at a certain frequency,
and says that frequency can be reprogrammed.
This was the basis of his VTA, he reprogrammed the magnet to resonate at 60 Hz.
Then he tapped 60 Hz power from it and ran regular household appliances with it.
He also stated that at certain times the device wouldn't work at all, indicating that the
magnet was tapping into a source of energy from space,
and the position of the earth, moon, and sun had something to do with it.
If this is true and magnets do resonate at a certain frequency it would explain why some people have
got magnetic motors to work and yet no one else seems to be able to repeat it.
If we could learn how Floyd reprogrammed the magnets we could tap into the energy in different ways.
Floyd would place a new magnet into a large coil he built and would determine the frequency it resonated at.
Then he would reprogram it to a new frequency.
Even if we could figure out how to measure a magnets frequency we could design a system around it.
The one in his video demo was resonating at 12.5 Hz. when he measured it and then he did the reprogramming.
He stated that only certain types of magnets could be used for this.
Here is the video SWEET! ;D :
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=2973947177397458172&ei=mVDuScHDLqCI-gGNuoyCBA&q=Floyd+Sweet+VTA&hl=en
The programming process starts 32 min. into the video.
Quote from: AbbaRue on April 21, 2009, 07:06:41 PM
In the FEG 5-45 you find the Floyd Sweet VTA.
He claims that certain types of magnets resonate at a certain frequency,
and says that frequency can be reprogrammed.
This was the basis of his VTA, he reprogrammed the magnet to resonate at 60 Hz.
Then he tapped 60 Hz power from it and ran regular household appliances with it.
He also stated that at certain times the device wouldn't work at all, indicating that the
magnet was tapping into a source of energy from space,
and the position of the earth, moon, and sun had something to do with it.
If this is true and magnets do resonate at a certain frequency it would explain why some people have
got magnetic motors to work and yet no one else seems to be able to repeat it.
If we could learn how Floyd reprogrammed the magnets we could tap into the energy in different ways.
Floyd would place a new magnet into a large coil he built and would determine the frequency it resonated at.
Then he would reprogram it to a new frequency.
Even if we could figure out how to measure a magnets frequency we could design a system around it.
The one in his video demo was resonating at 12.5 Hz. when he measured it and then he did the reprogramming.
He stated that only certain types of magnets could be used for this.
Here is the video SWEET! ;D :
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=2973947177397458172&ei=mVDuScHDLqCI-gGNuoyCBA&q=Floyd+Sweet+VTA&hl=en
The programming process starts 32 min. into the video.
A resonance system is depending on constant properties of the objects included in the system, in order to sustain the oscillation. If you load it, it will limit the oscillation amplitude and lower the resonance frequency. Try to put a regular pendulum in water, and see what happens. The load the pendulum feel in water will not only break the oscillation, but also alter the resonance frequency to a lower frequency. A oscillating magnet must be something like an electromagnet that is connected to a capacitor. You can have quite small input, but there is high currents flowing through each component. There is however no way such system can run a household alone, as any load will limit the phase delay between the components, and therefor the energy output will collapse immediately.
Convincing speach will not proove OU. And the space energy that this magnets utilize is pure BS, seen from my point of view.
Vidar
Why would one like to re-program magnets resonance frequency?
I would think that any resonance frequency could be used here, even 12.5 Hz.
Lightbulbs easily work on that frequency as well.
Or is this about tapping wireless from the 110V grid?