This new design uses PULLEYS to increase the lifting power of the counterweights AND it simplifies the entire system by requiring NO COMPLICATED LOCKING/UNLOCKING MECHANISMS!
Is there a stop for the center weight that keeps it from going all the way through? Or are you relying on the friction of the smaller rollers?
If you had the center weight on a bearing track it would seem that you wouldn't need all of the smaller rollers at all. The larger rollers could be moved in and accomplish the same thing.
Charlie
Weights on red pullys at basically zero degrees providing next to no lift to center weight ....even when they start to get to a useful angle to provide some lift, it will only be for 90 degrees( 45-135 degrees) and the 90 degree mark being max
assuming the orientation of the center weight is verticle, and masses are proportionate to size, the center weight would overpower the torque-action of the 2 weighted (red) pulleys, and simply stay at the bottom. if the weight on the pulleys were increased, the center weight would simply stay at the top.
what is the intended 'function' of such a device?
Quote from: sm0ky2 on May 01, 2009, 11:20:58 PM
assuming the orientation of the center weight is verticle, and masses are proportionate to size, the center weight would overpower the torque-action of the 2 weighted (red) pulleys, and simply stay at the bottom. if the weight on the pulleys were increased, the center weight would simply stay at the top.
what is the intended 'function' of such a device?
Function? wtf, this is the gravity powered devices forum.
Once the weight gets to the top, the whole wheel turns 180° and then repeats the process.
read this thread to get up to speed on this: http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=7370.0
Quote from: Lilhawk on May 01, 2009, 10:45:20 PM
Weights on red pullys at basically zero degrees providing next to no lift to center weight ....even when they start to get to a useful angle to provide some lift, it will only be for 90 degrees( 45-135 degrees) and the 90 degree mark being max
The drawing is only for general illustration purposes to show the basic principle of the device.
Sizes and distances don't necessarily mean to show any definite scale or proportion.
The counterweights are very heavy, heavy enough to turn almost a full 180°.
the center will never get to the top.... by the time you increase the weight on the red pullys and so it can pull the center weight to the top, it will be too heavy on the bottom because the two red weight will weigh more than the center weight at the top
Quote from: noonespecial on May 01, 2009, 09:59:06 PM
Is there a stop for the center weight that keeps it from going all the way through? Or are you relying on the friction of the smaller rollers?
If you had the center weight on a bearing track it would seem that you wouldn't need all of the smaller rollers at all. The larger rollers could be moved in and accomplish the same thing.
Charlie
Of course there must be a stop or the weight would fall out.
The weight must "float" on the rollers. I'm not sure that if it were on a track, that it would work.
Quote from: Lilhawk on May 01, 2009, 11:42:53 PM
the center will never get to the top.... by the time you increase the weight on the red pullys and so it can pull the center weight to the top, it will be too heavy on the bottom because the two red weight will weigh more than the center weight at the top
The red weights can't be "too heavy" because they are only attached by center axles to the main wheel and they are balanced with each other on opposite sides of the wheel.
Here is a variation with a series of counterweight wheels and showing the proper angle of the entire system. Again, THIS IS NOT TO ANY SPECIFIC SCALE.
Is there a WM2D model available?
It looks like the pictures where created in wm2d...
Very original thinking b.t.w.
Thanks
Hi Yortuk Festrunk,
I think there is a guy here
http://www.energeticforum.com/53455-post495.html
who is trying something similar.
But instead of your pulley relay system he is using a weired leverage system.
Thought this may be interesting for you.
Out of curiosity I threw together a quck Phun simulation and from what I saw, this does seem to have merit. Unfortunately, it quickly got out of alignment because I couldn't get a good 'grip' between the rollers and the weight.
If I can figure out a good way to overcome this shortcoming of Phun, I'll post it here.
Charlie
Quote from: AquariuZ on May 02, 2009, 05:56:36 AM
Is there a WM2D model available?
It looks like the pictures where created in wm2d...
Very original thinking b.t.w.
Thanks
I only used WM to draw the picture. It is not an actual sim. I screen captured it then drew the belts and colored it in using Paint.
Quote from: oscar on May 02, 2009, 09:45:27 AM
Hi Yortuk Festrunk,
I think there is a guy here
http://www.energeticforum.com/53455-post495.html
who is trying something similar.
But instead of your pulley relay system he is using a weired leverage system.
Thought this may be interesting for you.
As I told AB Hammer in my other thread, http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=7370.0 there are two problems in that setup that I have addressed in my design:
1. It will be extremely difficult to make a wheel work that rotates non-stop because centrifugal force will interfere with any part of the system where weights shift position. I think it will be much easier to construct a system that can shift weights up while at a dead stop, then rotate 180°, stop again and repeat the process. This is what this design is intended to do. It completely eliminates centrifugal force from the equation.
2. Any weight in the system cannot be directly connected to the rest of the system. It must be "separate", or "float" as I like to say. The weight on my design floats from one end of the set of rollers to the other. This way, the weight is only being "held" on one side of the wheel to create an out of balance condition.
Yortuk Festrunk
Yes I understand all you have said. But I don't see the travel. But I will await your build.
AB Hammer your right about the travel....I did some basic math to this.... the counter weight(red pulleys) need a lot weight
I rounded in Yortuk's favor but at the end you need over 6.5 times of swinging counter weight to center weight , just to balance this
IMO this will not work and wastes peoples time.
Quote from: Lilhawk on May 02, 2009, 03:22:00 PM
AB Hammer your right about the travel....I did some basic math to this.... the counter weight(red pulleys) need a lot weight
I rounded in Yortuk's favor but at the end you need over 6.5 times of swinging counter weight to center weight , just to balance this
IMO this will not work and wastes peoples time.
You're a funny guy. What part of "THIS IS NOT TO SCALE" do you not understand?
Whatever weight it takes to move the main weight is what the counterweights must weigh. Whatever diameter the counterweight wheels must be to turn the rollers to move the main weight across the main wheel is the diameter they must be.
This picture is to give people the general idea of how this system works. I'm glad you have an opinion on it. Since it is your opinion alone, then it is a waste of YOUR time. There are many people who DON'T think this is a waste of time and are now making their own sims and models because they see that this will work.
I hope you find something better on which to spend your time.
actually your right this is my opinion....I should not force/tell other people this is a waste time
also I did not prove this wheel will not work. The final math would involve the center weight force minus the counter weights force as per positon on the wheel. I threw in numbers to show how much of a relationship the force each wheel has to each other and the center weight.
Your right there is probably a perfect counter weight/ counter weight diameter and position. When this is acheived you will have a balanced wheel that will turn as far as the friction will allow it.
I guess I'm making this a little personal....but when you see "breakthrough" ...I was a little let down
As I mentioned in a previous reply, I did get a similar design to work in Phun(although only temporarily due to Phun's limitations).
The holy grail of gravity wheel design is getting the weight back to the top to restart the process. This seemed to work in my simulation but this is such a simple design, it wouldn't take a lot of effort to throw one together to validate it.
I'd be willing to take a crack at it once my pendulum project is complete.
Charlie
Quote from: Lilhawk on May 02, 2009, 06:54:45 PM
also I did not prove this wheel will not work.
Actually you did Lilhawk,
You don't need more precise maths to show the unworkability of the design. Even on rough calculations the discrepancies are far too large to be made up for by a more precise approach.
Hans von Lieven
Charlie (noonespecial) asked me to post this from the other thread:
another solution is to let the whole set up flip on a horizontal axis.
yeah - maybe even start the rotation when the weight is lifted just over halfway up...?
ruggero ;-)
Tomorrow I'll post a video of a simulation showing this working as described.
Regards,
Charlie
I apologize but because of personal reasons it looks I won't be able to do the video until tomorrow.
Charlie
Yortuk,
I tired to respond to your personal message but it crashes each time I do.
You can send me an email at purelyprimitives@charter.net.
Thanks,
Charlie