Hi, just listened to the Alex Jones show today at www.infowars.com and he said, that it is very urgent that this new bill about carbon taxes will not pass today, so get off your PC now and call your congress man right now. VERY IMPORTANT !
P.S: TV-stations are only broadcasting about the death of Michael Jackson, but Congress is changing this important "slavery bill" without the public knowing.
So tune in the A. Jones radio show now and call your congress man right now !
It passed...we are doomed.
Bill
And they talked on cnn or bbc on how inevitable it is that household energy prices will go up.
And they want us all to have this new Government Smart Meter which is supposed to prevent these cross billing errors, but you know that really its so they can monitor directly our electrical usage and charge us for C02 emissions if we go over what they have determined is our household allowance.
And they trialed 500 smart fridges which allow them to turn off your fridge remotely!
They are all done initially as "experimented/trials" then when enough volunteers have them, it will become law. Don't accept them! They have made all this global warming shit up just so they can fine us for it!
D.
If a suddenly higher power bill only manages to blow the stops on one mad scientist, triggering him to get off his butt and to get busy in his workshop, the bill may be of only temporary effect.
I am amazed to see how many people are highly educated technically on here (in contrast to me), and surely this is but the very top water crystal of the iceberg. Getting smart brains to act and especially work together is getting more and important by the day.
Our minds are changing, or deteriorating. Look at what sinlge minds accomplished, long ago. Da Vinci, Bessler, Tesla, et al. What keeping us from shoving the 23rd century up the world's behind, this very century already?
I'm a little confussed over your opposition to clean energy policies. All in this forum are here to produce some form energy other than the ones that belch out billions of tons of pollution each year and make us servant to Big Oil and radical nations that sit on the reserves we are dependent upon. A step is finally made to ween our nation (mine for sure) off this madness and you want folks to vote against their best interests. This is something that the Far Right (wealthy) has been somehow successful at for decades now. Times are a changing. Your fear and claims are baseless and without fact, as are their points of origin. So much for a forum that wishes to save the planet. I suppose my reply will be deleted as I have witnessed on other threads of extreme views. I sincerely hope that your views are of the minority, for if not, then we are truly doomed.
Very disappointed
Dave
Quote from: 1quasar1 on June 27, 2009, 12:01:47 PM
I'm a little confussed over your opposition to clean energy policies. All in this forum are here to produce some form energy other than the ones that belch out billions of tons of pollution each year and make us servant to Big Oil and radical nations that sit on the reserves we are dependent upon. A step is finally made to ween our nation (mine for sure) off this madness and you want folks to vote against their best interests. This is something that the Far Right (wealthy) has been somehow successful at for decades now. Times are a changing. Your fear and claims are baseless and without fact, as are their points of origin. So much for a forum that wishes to save the planet. I suppose my reply will be deleted as I have witnessed on other threads of extreme views. I sincerely hope that your views are of the minority, for if not, then we are truly doomed.
Very disappointed
Dave
Your post makes no sense to me. I really doubt that any one here on this forum is for pollution. However, that being said, we have to use some common sense here. All of this carbon based tax BS is only another way to establish government control and power over the people and businesses. CO2 is NOT a poison and global warming has NOT been proved and the data released just last month shows the earth has cooled some 1/2 degree over the last 10 years while Al gore was getting all freaked out that his data showed the earth warmed 1/10 of a degree in the past 100 years. He is a scammer of the highest order and governments are jumping on this as a power grab.
Face it, no one has to worry about saving the planet, that is a joke. This planet was here long before us, and will be here long after we are gone. This bill will destroy industries and cost hundreds of thousands to lose their jobs. Next time you open a Coke, just think about all of that harmful CO2 you just pumped out into the atmosphere. A 50 cent Coke may have a $10.00 carbon tax attached to it thanks to this bill passing.
Bill
Although like no-one on this earth, I cannot proove being doubt, but my logic also tells me CO2 is not the poison, although certainly a by-product. Plants like CO2. So much, that they give us O2 in return for it, while they point at the skies.
Carbon tax is cool if we are given alternatives. Thus far, Oil companies have been working on the opposite. Garage tinkerers are working on water cars. Nothing the oil companies can exist from, but then, they could use their capitol and land to start water machine factories. No-one ever forced them to pollute their way into creating a living for some workers.
With pollution free transportation, and more money in the people's pockets, more taxes will be collected anyway, for better infrestructure. More people will buy cars/bikes when their mileage A-is nearly pollution independant, and B-ony costs them more water and tires. Lots of cars will be needed when they're cheaper to make, run and maintain. For anyone with money, it would be silly to not start their own vehicle brand.
And what about trains. With hydrogen engines and self-sparkers, they will be better able to carry or refill their fuel on-route, less need for electrical infrastructure. Costs for public transportation go down. People get more freedom.
For now, I think your country is broke only because of the American Dream and Way of Life. Time for a new dream. Something more realistic, more sustainable, and a bit less fueled by greed at the cost of others.
If you're not for pollution then perhaps you have an Idea to alleviate the problem without some way of paying for it. The House passed Bill, while not perfect by any means, puts limits on and taxes (over) set limits of emissions to Producers of carbon based fuels. You are right when you state that we will all pay more as a result, but it must come from somewhere. My taxes pay for Roads, Highways, National Parks, Firemen, Police, National Security etc. etc. and I'm good with that. I'm not good with the notion that there is some grand conspiracy to enslave us all. A ten dollar tax on a 50c Coke is so over the top but then you must exaggerate to get your point across I suppose.
Because as you state Global Warming has not been proved, we should wait until the hammer hits our children in the head, is in my view preposterous. While as you also state the obvious, that Co2 is not necessarily poison, it has been proved scientifically to be commensurate with ice core studies showing that large amounts were present during times of global warming and subsequent cooling and since the industrial revolution the amounts recorded are higher than when we were not burning oil and dumping CFC's in the atmosphere. And while there is debate over this, the claims on the other side are bankrolled by Big OIL. Guess you've surmised on what side I stand.
If we close our eyes maybe it will just go away!
Dave
I don't like how the glaciers are turning into mud pools. For me, earth is plenty hot as it is. Burning the fossile fuel reserve in little more than a century is bound to heat up earth (I don't see the balancing effect) although I would not blame CO2.
Too much CO2 makes me breath hard, so let's not wait and plant more trees rather than burning them and turning them into furnature.
No, I most certainly don't want to pass a dying worth on to my future children. Hate waste, of any kind. Waste of energy, me being biblically lazy, hurts me most. So let the fossile oil sit, and run on water. Side note : burning water may even produce more earth heating, has anyone researched this? Let's hope the water vapor from our exhaust will be cool. Unless it's too dirty to run to the splitter, I'd even recycle that.
My government has lifted the (hefty) road tax for the few most (commercially available) fuel efficient and clean cars completely. A couple hundred Euro saving per year. I detest SUVs and the driving style of its owners, those are welcome to pay a lot of road tax, or CO2 tax for that matter. I never see more than one guy in those anyway, and I can understand that seeing their average facial expression and attitude on life.
I'm all ready for the next ice age. Snow groome the cycle paths so I skate-ski to work. I'd go to work with a smile.
Apart from the chemical side of climate, why would we not focus on the actual heat output of our appliances and vehicles? Technology exists to turn the heat into more useful energy, so why dump it into the athmosphere unused?
Some facts to consider about this global warming scam.
The total sum of all of mankinds CO2 emissions equals 1/5 the emissions given off by natural volcanic actions.
All the volcanic action on the planet gives off far less CO2 then everyday death of animal life.
All the CO2 given off by animal life deaths is far less then the CO2 given off by the
decay of rotting plant life.
(So you produce more CO2 from rotting grass cutting your lawn each week then driving your car to work, Leave your grass uncut all summer if you really want to decrease the CO2 emissions you produce ;D)
But by far most of the CO2 comes from the oceans.
2/3 of all the CO2 released into the atmosphere comes from the oceans.
After considering these statistics you see how insignificant man made CO2 really is.
And to top it all off CO2 is only a minor greenhouse gas!!!!!
BY FAR!! BY FAR!! THE MOST POTENT GREENHOUSE GAS IS WATER VAPOUR!!
That is why it is so hot and humid just before a thunder storm.
And to top it all off greenhouse gases are not responsible for global warming.
Scientific data clearly shows that elevated sun spot activity in the last century
corresponds perfectly with global warming.
The graph in Al Gores video left out one important point.
Elevated CO2 follows global warming. Rising global temperatures causes more plant and animal life to grow in the oceans which causes more CO2 to be released into the atmosphere. And as I stated before 2/3 of all the CO2 in the atmosphere comes from the oceans.
Al Gore placed the CO2 graph on the wrong side of the global warming graph.
There is absolutely nothing mankind with all his technology can do to effect global warming in any measurable amounts. We can't stop sun spots from happening.
The only good thing about the global warming scare is it has caused new technologies to come out in the world, to ween us off of crude oil.
But greenhouse gases causing global warming is a new money making scam.
We needed something to boost the economy and this is what they came up with.
I'm all for new clean technologies, but I just don't like being lied to.
And the smell of ozone coming from an electric motor is nicer then the smell of gasoline fumes.
Abba:
Very well said sir. That sums up my position exactly. I plan on using my devices to live off of the grid soon but, it won't be to save the planet, it will be to save money and help the environment. Right now, my electric bill averages $30/month which I would bet is a lot lower than most, if not all, of the global warming activists. Al Gore's electric bill at just one of his 5 homes (The one in Brentwood, TN) is $2,300/month.
I agree we should all be the best stewards of the planet that we can while we are here but, within reason, using real science. I don't like depending upon any one source for energy so I am not a fan of oil. The answer is not to ban oil use, the answer is to come up with something better and cheaper and the market will take care of itself IF left alone by the government, which seems to be impossible now.
Bill
For the sake of AbbaRue's argument, let's suppose that there are no appreciable affects to the planet from man made Co2. The amounts of toxic/carcinogenic byproducts emitted from current main energy waste streams (coal and oil)is reason enough to use solar, wind, insulation, wave power etc. and search for even more efficient means of generation and conservation. Your argument is that it's OK to pollute when we have alternate means because the situation is somehow completely out of our hands. I, and many others (the majority) respectfully disagree with this.
Dave
People always talk about how the ice caps are melting and you see these big chunks break off on the news. Firstly, these big chunks break off every summer and have always done.
But surely and more importantly, let us not forget that we exited the last ice age about 20,000 years ago. The ice started to melt and the temperature started to rise...
The ice caps are what is left of that ice age and in the big picture, we are still coming out of that ice age. The temperature will continue to rise for another 80,000 years, and then it will drop for another 100,000 years until its cold enough for the next ice age as has happened again and again and again.
It doesn't take much then to see this is a normal process, ice melts when ice ages end, the temperature has been rising ever since and will continue to do so regardless of what we do.
As far as the general fluxuation goes, planet has been cooling for the last 10 years and if it continues to do so, by 2015, they will have to admit that global warming is over.
Furthermore, the figures quoted are only from 1950 onwards. What about the heated period of several hundred years ago and the mini-ice age of 400 years ago. It has been a lot worse than it is now, its all just media and government hype. They simply picked a time period which gave temperatures that suited the case they wanted to make.
But then what do I know.
Regards,
Dave.
Another stealf tax system in place, we are starting a new transisition from a fossil fuel age to an electric age, purely because the supply of oil is comming to an end.
It wont be long before you drive an electric car and pay per mile this is the only way i can see them keeping there high revenue that will replace fuel taxes.
Offcourse if there is a mini ice age in the near future it is easy to cover their story by saying it's because the carbon trust has worked. :(
Sharing what you know is what is important. There is no controversial subject that should go unchallenged and the more debate the better as long as that debate stays based in truth and facts. Facts however, are not verified through wikipedia. or a conspiracy theorists web site or radio show. My argument against pollutants being spewed in the atmosphere verses clean sources of energy generation remains unchallenged. So I ask once again, how should we pay for the right thing to do.
Regards
Dave
Dave:
What do you mean your argument remains unchallenged? It was not only challenged, it was overwhelmed by facts in my opinion. The thing you do not seem to realize is that all of the other "alternatives" also depend on oil as well. Some say windmills, well, try making the generators and the plastic for them and the electronics without oil. Electric cars...great until we need to plug them in and the need for electric power quadruples, where does that come from? No generation of energy is "clean". None at all. The thing is to balance the use of multiple forms for the most efficient and economically feasible energy as possible. Even my earth battery requires materials that used oil to manufacture.
I am all for lessening our dependence on oil but to think that we can outlaw anything that requires oil is not realistic thinking. (I am speaking more to our current government's policies here Dave, not your opinions)
Bill
In furtherance to an earlier reference...as moderator of this forum, only the disruptive posts and inflammatory comments have been deleted or edited.
All opinions respectfully expressed are welcome.
Regarding global warning, I believe it was determined that geothermal activity was responsible for the shrinking arctic icecap.
Whereas the antarctic remains the same as it ever was.
Regards...
this is old data re: the 'warming globe', but since this topic has turned into a discussion of such i thought i might bring it back up.
"you may be interested to know that global warming, earthquakes, hurricanes, and other natural disasters are a direct effect of the shrinking numbers of pirates since the 1800s. for your interest, i have included a graph of the approximate number of pirates versus the average global temperature over the last 200 years. as you can see, there is a statistically significant inverse relationship between pirates and global temperature."
i think this pretty much solves it, how bout you guys?
and more recently, some more evidence of the pirate/temp relationship.
http://www.venganza.org/2008/04/04/pirates-temperature/
smile guys, it's funny.
Who doesn't feel like sailing when the weather is nice ?
Regards...
The need for oil for many processes that are completely necessary in every day life is obvious. In fact I really enjoy my new Michelins on my vehicle. However, burning it up in my vehicle makes much less sense than say cruising around in an all electric vehicle. Much that is made from oil plastics etc. can and is being recycled. As to facts, there are none posted only stated without accredited studies with corroborated conclusions. Would love to see some. My next reply will cite accredited studies with corroborated conclusions, will yours? I'm not quite sure how to respond to your last statement Bill. I said nothing about outlawing anything that requires oil. As to my opinion, I consider it valid as you probably do yours. I would not deny anyones. By the way, I like your earth battery work a lot and respect your opinion. Can't wait to get back to my project.
Dave
Quote from: WilbyInebriated on June 27, 2009, 09:47:09 PM
and more recently, some more evidence of the pirate/temp relationship.
http://www.venganza.org/2008/04/04/pirates-temperature/
smile guys, it's funny.
Got me laughing. :D
Dave:
Hey, it is ok if we disagree. I am cool with that. I know you didn't say anything about outlawing everything made using oil, which is why I put my disclaimer in parenthesis that I was speaking to our government policies and not your opinions.
Electric cars are cool and are about to get a whole lot more efficient using supercaps instead of batteries. The problem is this: Take CA for instance. They just passed a law that will require that 40% of the vehicles on the road in the next 5 years will be electric vehicles. That might be fine if it happened naturally through market driven pressures but it is artificial. California is already broke, and can't produce enough electricity on their own right now and buys about 25% of their power, at a higher rate, from neighboring states. Still, even doing this, they have rolling blackouts as a matter of course most of the year. So, what happens at 5:00 when most folks get home and plug in their cars? It takes less fossil fuels to produce gas than it does to make all that electricity.
Now I am in favor of nuclear energy and that would solve most of what we are talking about here. The problem is, if we decided to build 10 plants starting today, it would be over 15 years before the first one was completed due to, yes you guessed it, government regulations. (EPA, etc) The Navy has used these reactors powering all of ther subs and carriers for over 30 years with no problems. The next generation reactors consume so much of the nuclear fuel radioactivity that the "waste" is not dangerous at all. But, they won't go there because that makes no money for Washington.
If everyone had windmills and solar to charge up their cars then, this would take care of the above mentioned problem. But right now, that is expensive. Unless most folks wanted to do this, the price probably will not come down all that much soon. They want to force this upon us which is not the right way to go in my opinion.
As I said earlier, I believe most folks on this site care about the environment and want to help. That is a good thing. Thanks for your kind words about my earth battery experiments.
@ Wilby:
You mean I am becomming an endangered species? Ha ha.
Bill
Hey Bill. I'm going against my word to reply next without studies and conclusions because I'm intrigued and don't have enough time tonight to gather it all. I too, would like to see more nuclear power but that's another can of worms. All things take time and theres no time like right now to start. I also agree that things have not been thought all the way through. That's why we need this dialogue to come to reasonable and agreeable solutions, As for the electric car scenario, incentives to purchase solar charging stations, say a 200 watt panel and 1000 amp hr batteries would be sufficient to charge them would work (5 solar hrs x 200 watts) What amazes me is that tidal power is not the topic of consideration for 90% of the worlds needs as it never stops and is truly free. AH Moon Power! Anyway I think we will get a lot of things wrong until we get it right, but I think we can. As to the reply about decaying grass verses tail pipe emissions, AbbaRue should put a tent over his lawn camp out in it over night after cutting his grass and then the next day tie his tail pipe into it for 5 minutes and see if his facts are indeed true.
Cheers Dave
[
quasar:
I agree 100% about tidal power. A few things have been done in this area but, if we put our minds to it, it too could contribute a large percentage and, as you said, totally free.
Of course Greenpeace would claim we were ruining the oceans by doing this. (You just can't please everyone) I am totally in favor of exploring tidal power.
Bill
@Alan
Quote from: alan on June 27, 2009, 05:19:29 AM
And they talked on cnn or bbc on how inevitable it is that household energy prices will go up.
Don't worry,
It's hapening here in Australia also at the same time, in September this year, we cannot buy any airconditioner or use an airconditioner rated under 4 stars.
Work this out, a Reverse cycle airconditioner makes a more efficient heat pump than a standard electric radiator, yet the powers that be, (GOV) want us all to ditch our aircons.
There whackos the lot of em.
jim
@ D
Quote from: CTG Labs on June 27, 2009, 07:42:50 AM
And they want us all to have this new Government Smart Meter which is supposed to prevent these cross billing errors, but you know that really its so they can monitor directly our electrical usage and charge us for C02 emissions if we go over what they have determined is our household allowance.
And they trialed 500 smart fridges which allow them to turn off your fridge remotely!
They are all done initially as "experimented/trials" then when enough volunteers have them, it will become law. Don't accept them! They have made all this global warming shit up just so they can fine us for it!
D.
Hello D, your remarks about the 500 smart fridges opened my eyes, nearly fell off my chair here.
In Australia we have had "smart" hot water controlled systems for 30 odd years, but they said to us, "allow us to turn them off during peak energy usage or for the prevention of load shedding"
To sweeten the deal, they gave us all a rebate on the power bill.
Each house has 2 electrical meters, the first meter feeds to the house power points and lightning circuits.
The second meter feeds ONLY to the hot water system.
Now I got a question, if the energy costs so much to make it, how can they turn around and give us rebates? flyes in the face of their policies lol.
jiim
Quote from: CTG Labs on June 27, 2009, 07:42:50 AMAnd they want us all to have this new Government Smart Meter.....Don't accept them!
The way I see it, at some time in the future, all devices that are major power consumers will be required to have a built-in BPL interface (Broadband over Power Lines) which will allow the power companies direct-control of that device.
Additionally, existing meters will be swapped out for BPL-ready meters thus eliminating the need to physically 'read' meters to determine monthly power consumption.
In time, every device that plugs into the mains will include a BPL interface, allowing real-time monitoring of individual power-consumer accounts (with increased granularity) by any agency authorized to utilize the system.
Along with one's buying-habits, payment-records, voting-record, criminal-record and medical-records, one's power-use habits will be entered into the central database to further embellish the 'profile' established for each individual.
Private-network BPL will also open the door (rather widely) to individual surveillance through possible surreptitious inclusion of monitoring devices in any electrical device one might purchase.
BPL is on the way:
http://technologizer.com/2009/02/19/ibm-delivers-high-speed-internet-over-power-lines/
Of course I may be reading entirely too much into it...
.
Have to be hooked up for the damn meters to work. I just got one of the damn things and waiting for it to gouge me. I will be in their office and in their face too. Time to just start generating your own power for sure.
thay
What's bothersome is that some poeple's personal PC's use more electricity than window AC's.
Also, it may be interesting to know that the overhead ceiling fan and portable fans use quite a bit of electricity as well.
I've read this post, now what's the idea behind the bill? Must I resort to Alex Jones information?
Alex has tentatively made his way back into my good book, after seeing him humbly and sincerely apologize to David Icke for trashing him.
Regards...