Gravity makes things move,
only things that have mass
can make things move.
Therefore gravity must have mass.
Protons, electrons, neutrons, what are they? Is any human capable
of understanding the universe at the atomic level?
gravity IS mass?
or rather the interaction between 2 masses.
all things that have mass, have gravity.
2 gravities = movement.
they have a tendendcy to become one mass. and thus more combined gravity.
Quote from: brian334 on July 11, 2009, 05:36:47 PM
Protons, electrons, neutrons, what are they? Is any human capable
of understanding the universe at the atomic level?
imagine something 150 times smaller than a proton. (lets call them pieces)
there are two kinds of these, us mere humans call them + and -
and we only acknowledge their existence in great quantities so that their awesome power can interfere with our medioker gigantic equipment.
These pieces by themselves are immeasurable to us, because of their tiny size.
What we call a 'quark' or 'antiquark' is a large group of these pieces, 50 or so usually... (and we can detece these with out equipment! Yay!) and they are often dominated by one type or the other, and the differing types attract to one another. sometimes they are so closely matched inside with + and -, that they seem to us to be neither, and we call these 'gluons'.
3 of these larger pieces form together into the simplest of the atomic structures.
which can be + or - or a combination thereof.
each larger group or cluster results in more combined mass/gravity
for instance, an proton has more mass/gravity than a quark.
and a group of protons/neutrons has more mass/gravity than a single proton.
To answer your question, any human is 'cabable' of such understanding of our universe. The question remains of wether or not they are willing to seek the knowledge and do something with it.
Oky2,
The issue is mass and gravity.
The question is does gravity have
mass?
What can make something with
mass move that does not have mass?
Quote from: brian334 on July 11, 2009, 07:15:47 PM
What can make something with
mass move that does not have mass?
mass and gravity are interchangable, where there is mass there is gravity, where there is no mass gravity does not exist.
so, gravity IS mass. if you prefer to think of mass as "having gravity" or "gravity having mass", it makes no difference,. where there is one, there are both.
Quote from: sm0ky2 on July 11, 2009, 10:01:22 PM
mass and gravity are interchangable, where there is mass there is gravity, where there is no mass gravity does not exist.
so, gravity IS mass. if you prefer to think of mass as "having gravity" or "gravity having mass", it makes no difference,. where there is one, there are both.
if you are in space, you body keep the mass you had on earth but there no more gravity. The human body in space suffer from alot of problem because of the lack of gravity.So when you said "where there is no mass gravity does not exist" i dont think its true because that mean that if no gravity , there no mass too but we can still go in space and our mass dosent change.
Best Regards,
IceStorm
does electricity or magnetism have mass?
solar sails are powered by light, which doesnt have mass but has the capacity to become mass
gravity is a storage device for potential energy.
so i guess gravity is merely a form of potential energy, and i dont necessarily consider energy to be mass
Hold on there. Different masses have different gravity. Mass + density = Gravity. If you had a planet made up of Iron it will have a greater gravity mass/density ratio than a planet made up of ammonia and sulfur. So you can have a mass greater than the earths but it gravity is less than earths. So I don't think gravity is mass.
Delta
Brian334,
Look at the asteroid belt. There is a lot of mass in the belt however not enough large bodies to cause the coalescing of a planet. A case where there is lots of mass spread out preventing the forming of a planet. So even though these asteroids will not make a planet, they do have gravity.
How each one has its one, each is different than another. One may have a large mass but little gravity due to lack of density(a light rock of sandstone). When another has less mass but greater density(a granite rock) giving it a greater gravity.
Delta
Quote from: mr_bojangles on July 24, 2009, 05:55:44 PM
does electricity or magnetism have mass?
solar sails are powered by light, which doesnt have mass but has the capacity to become mass
gravity is a storage device for potential energy.
so i guess gravity is merely a form of potential energy, and i dont necessarily consider energy to be mass
Simple rules here, anything that 'occupies space' will 'displace space' and therefor has a Gravitational influence, this includes Photons and the lot.
Gravity is a Tensor Field.
Jerry ;)
Delta.
How do you know small objects have gravity?
Has it ever been measured or is it just a theory?
.
Since this is all 'half baked' and I really don't know the answer, here's some thoughts that come to mind as a 'layman':
We are told that at the atomic level, a particle's 'mass' is gauged by it's 'charge', so rather than atoms being actual material 'things' the way we think of 'things', they would seem to be made up of various foci of 'charge'.
At the macro-level, we get used to discriminating between matter and energy, mass and gravity, conductor and insulator but as we descend into the constituent makeup of elements at the atomic level, we find that the sub-atomic particles manifest properties as the result of 'observation' and blink in and out of existence more as a 'cloud' rather than the more popular depiction of a 'solar-system' with electrons orbiting a nucleus.
The popular description for gravity is a depression in space-time resulting from the presence of a mass, the more mass, the more gravity, but nobody knows for sure, it's all hypothetical.
If you had occasion to read through New Scientist for Jan-17 2009, you may have encountered the 'holographic' article, where it's surmised that the Geo600 project in Germany may have sensed the limits of space-time and it's further surmised that those limits may imply that the world we perceive may be nothing more than a 'projection', the question, if this proves to be the case, is 'who' is controlling the source-data that produces the projection?
I have a pdf of the original article available, but it's too large to upload to this server.
It'll be about a year before any final determination can be made since they have to eliminate any other possibility of transient 'noise' being the cause for there initial findings.
Does gravity have mass? As our present understanding goes, it would be just as correct to ask: Does gravity have 'charge'? We can measure it's effects but 'what' exactly it 'is' has yet to be discovered.
.
The important question to ask is can gravity transfer mass?
For example can gravity transfer mass from the earth to the sun?
Quote from: brian334 on July 24, 2009, 08:17:16 PM
Delta.
How do you know small objects have gravity?
Has it ever been measured or is it just a theory?
Are you talking about gravity or gravitation? Because their not the same. First, lets start with Galileo. He showed that gravitation accelerates all objects at the same rate. Second, the terms gravitation and gravity are mostly interchangeable in everyday use, but a distinction is made in scientific usage. "Gravitation" is a general term describing the phenomenon by which bodies with mass are attracted to one another, while "gravity" refers specifically to the net force exerted by a mass on objects in its vicinity as well as by other factors, such as the masses rotation.
All matter has its own gravitational field and is attracted to other matter. You yourself have gravitation. The size of mass/density/rotation defines the gravitation strength or pull on other masses. Take the moon for an example it is very small in the big universe yet it has a gravity and gravitation and rotates. So if small things did not have gravitation or there is no gravity then you could throw it up in the air and it would keep going right out into space. Matter is matter and can't be anything but matter with laws that matter must conform to.
Delta
Weight is the amount of pressure or force an object that has mass is exerting upon another object that has mass. You can't have weight if there is no gravity or pressure being exerted between the objects.
Mass is the amount of pressure or force being exerted between itself and space-time. This pressure or force also causes space-time to bend. You can't have mass if space-time is not exerting a force or pressure against it.
Take the same object where space-time is not putting pressure against the object, then the object will have no mass. If the object has no mass, then space-time is not curved due to no pressure between the object and space-time, thus no gravity.
The denser an object is, the more it causes space-time to curve. The more space-time is curved, the more pressure it puts upon the object, thus more mass.
The photon does have mass, contrary to what most believe. When it is traveling at C, then it's relative mass is huge. It's relative mass is huge because it is exerting a great amount of pressure against space-time due to it's speed. The higher it's speed, the greater the amount of pressure space-time is exerting on it, thus giving the photon more relative mass and causes a curvature in space-time due to the pressures between them. The photon will follow this curved space-time, which is a corkscrew or helical motion.
Gravity is mass. Gravity or Mass is the pressure being exerted between an object and space-time. Space-time is exerting a pressure against the object which gives the object mass, and the object is exerting pressure against space-time which causes it to curve. This interaction between an object and space-time, gives the object it's mass and causes space-time to be curved. Without this interaction, there is no mass, there is no curved space-time, there is no gravity.
In the standard model, the Higgs Boson gives mass to every elementary particle which has mass, including the Higgs boson itself. In quantum field theory, the graviton is a hypothetical elementary particle that mediates the force of gravity which causes space-time to be curved.
Neither is correct. Every elementary particle that has mass is due to space-time exerting pressure on it and is not caused by a hypothetical Higgs Boson that has mass which sticks to the massless elementary particles to give it mass (LOL). The reason for this hypothetical Boson, is because all of the elementary particles that were predicted in the standard model to be massless, was discovered to have mass. This forced them to come up with a theory about mass, and the Higgs Boson was their answer, LOL.
Space-time is curved due to the mass exerting pressure on space-time and not caused by a hypothetical graviton that is massless (mass causes space-time to curve, not something that is massless...LOL). This is almost comical. Physicists are chasing the wind. If they defined mass properly, then they would know this.
.
Quote from: brian334 on July 24, 2009, 08:38:04 PM
The important question to ask is can gravity transfer mass?
For example can gravity transfer mass from the earth to the sun?
Sure, if the mass escapes the influence of the earth's gravitational field, assumes an orbit that is non-degenerative, isn't captured by the gravitational field of another body and is eventually captured by the sun's gravitational field, then that mass will be transferred from the earth to the sun. It may later return to us as a constituent of the solar-wind if our magnetosphere doesn't cause it to veer-off, or perhaps as photons or other particles.
The -effects- of gravity are well known, the -causes- are conjectural, which is why I don't use phrases such as: 'gravity
is a depression in space-time' but rather: 'it is
conjectured that gravity is a depression in space-time' (which is the accepted explanation, for the time being).
.
Quote from: brian334 on July 24, 2009, 08:38:04 PM
The important question to ask is can gravity transfer mass?
For example can gravity transfer mass from the earth to the sun?
Why do you ask these retarded questions all the time? The answers to all this light/mass/gravity stuff are easily obtainable with a Google search. You are trying to make gravity to be something it is not. You should familiarize yourself with what a force is, and then maybe the correct answers will come to you.
more like atoms create gravity.
and gravity is what we recognize as mass
because gravity causes weight, and likely kinetic force.
gravity is just magnetism,
which is moving from a positive charge,
towards a negative charge.
AKA gravity/magnetism moving from the positive ionosphere,
towards the negative sand/stone of the ground.
if you reversed the charge,
so that the ground was positive and the sky were negative,
than gravity would flow UP instead of DOWN !
the catch is that for complete reversal,
the positive polarity, would have to be stronger,
than the grounds negativity.
and the negative polarity, would have to be stronger,
than the sky's positivity.
if the ground and sky have a stronger charge,
than you would merely have reduced weight.
and reduced weight, is an easy thing to not notice !
If your ant had balls she wood bee your uncul