Hi All,
I got a picture from a user, who had problems to post it himself.
Here is a perpetual gravity experiment, where water is always sucked up
a hose and due to its weight in a long hose is always running in a circle.
So water can the pumped perpetually up a hill.
Here it is:
I used a bucket of water that was continuosly filled by the faccet. I used a 12 foot piece of hose(it was what i had laying around). the hose was positioned 2 feet straight up out of the bucket. then the other ten foot flowing in a straight line away from the bucket. I tried twisting the hose back around to the bucket but the flow would stop. on a level surface i measured how deep the hose was in the bucket(WATER INLET), then at the other end i measured up until the flow stoped. what i came up with was about 2inches difference(ABOVE WATER INTAKE). now i will say that the flow of water was alot slower above the intake point but WAS continous.I hope this email gets to you and i hope you try this for yourself. TONY
> > From: Stefan Hartmann
> > Subject: Re: my experiment
> > To: "tony hughes"
> > Date: Thursday, July 23, 2009, 12:02 PM
> > Hi,
> > did you already post it on overunity.com ?
> >
> > If not,
> > are you going to open source it or do you want to patent it
> > ?
> >
> > What is the status of this invention.
> >
> > As it seems the water weight of the 10 foot hose is the
> > secret to draw up the other water...
> >
> > How big and what diameter was the hose ?
> > Was it a special hose with low fluid friction inside ?
> >
> > Many thanks.
> >
> > Regards, Stefan.
> >
I didn`t post it cause my pic is to big for website You are welcome to post it if you like. I used an ordinary garden hose(hose did not have screw on ends it was just a old piece of garden hose i keep for siphoning gas) for the test. It was your post that intriged me to try it. I do not think there is any thing to patent here OPEN SOURCE ALWAYS. If you have an old garden hose laying aropund try it and saee if you get the same results. TONY
just like siphoning gas from a car ::)
It seems, the key is the right side 10 foot long hose.
If the weight of the water in it is bigger than the
atmospheric pressure, then it is able to suck up the water 2 foot on the
left side and we have a perpetual "water mill"
Anybody with a long garden hose in his garden can please verify this ?
Many thanks.
Will be testing come sunrise...
ok thought about this.....I don't think this works because gravity applied to the water is at very low angle ( 11 degrees ) . made a quick picture
using just weights and a ramp. the principle should still be the same and threw in numbers .. basically 1 ft of water = 1 lb
you can see its basically evens out
I was going to put serious time into plotting a full SIN vs angle sheet, to find a possible sweet spot.
But before I do this (with unlikely chance of success)...might capillary action or heat explain this expleriment? Either would be plenty of reason for further research.
A level is not the best way to calculate height over the inlet surface. Don't forget it's about the surface, not the inlet height. A still pool would offer space for the straight hose, and visualize the water falling from the hose back onto the surface. I hope it's not water replace by air that's dripping out
(not meaning to hi-jack, I can make a seperate thread if so wished)
This made me thinking. Liquid laws are based on homogenous fluid. What if we'd take advantage of the expansion of fluid here? Let's say we let water in from a warm pool, and have some form of heat converter cool it to 4° right after the top, which I believe is where it has the greatest density. After the SIN "leverage" reduction of the longer and flatter outlet hose, there could be a gain.
If a slurry of water and ice was sucked up from the surface, and after the highest point allowed to heat to exactly 4°C, which it would remain all through the outlet hose (be it angled shallowly or steeply), and advantage in "leverage" migh be obtained. Ice has a density of 916.7 g/cm³ at 0 °C whereas water at 4°C has a density of 999.9720g/cm³. The fine water/ice mix, I suppose would be in between those, still significatly lower than water alone. Water at freezing point is 999.8395 g/cm³. No idea which mix would still flow upwards. Less water is better, I suppose in terms of density.
A reservoir at top level could allow the slurry to reach homogenous 4°C, and start the journey down the outlet.
My idea will never be looped, but might be a density/gravity way of extracting energy from ice slurry warming up from ambient heat, while also pumping it up. Please debunk this so I can sleep tonigt :-)
Hi Stefan,
I wonder if this might have anything to do with the theoretical dip in the earth's horizon:
http://mintaka.sdsu.edu/GF/explain/atmos_refr/dip.html
I don't know if this makes sense at only 10 feet in hose length, but could there be just enough of a horizon dip to give the 2 inch difference due to the curvature of the earth? It would mean that the water exiting the hose was actually lower than the entry point even though it was above the water surface. The water's surface would follow the earth's curvature.
I think if you look at the diagram in the link and think about it you would see what I mean?
I found a reference that said that the earth's curvature is about a 10 ft. drop for every 30 miles length. Which is about one foot for every 3 miles.
This means that in order to get a 1 inch drop a hose on the earth's surface would need a hose that is a quarter of a mile in length. So the curvature of the earth does not fully explain this.
@Resinrat2
Do you mean that, presuming a dead straight 10ft hose at that incline would have the top part being at a smaller angle with the earth gravity pull than the other end? Naturally, there's no 2" in there.
Taking this a step further though, I see that if there are two balls on the earth's surface, let's say each on opposite shores of a large lake or sea, and a dead-stright tube between them would magically appear around them, these ball would start rolling towards each other. Not attracted primarily by one another, but due to he dead straight tube dipping below the earth's surface.
I would be interested to learn if this experiment has the same results when repeated in all directions, especially dead South, West, North and East.
I remember reading (a few decades ago) about a craftsman designing a straight-edged fountain that was of considerable length and he wanted the water to flow evenly off all sides. After designing it perfectly level on all edges he was irritated to find that it flowed only off the middle. He had to lower the sides at each end to get it to flow correctly. This was due to the curvature of the earth.
Interesting anecdote, thank you for sharing.
Could the surface tension of water be at work here? I imagine at low water heights, in the cms or mms, such a factor could become quite significant.
Hard to find an OU application of such sensitive surface properties this minute.
Quote from: hartiberlin on July 24, 2009, 12:37:29 AM
It seems, the key is the right side 10 foot long hose.
If the weight of the water in it is bigger than the
atmospheric pressure, then it is able to suck up the water 2 foot on the
left side and we have a perpetual "water mill"
Anybody with a long garden hose in his garden can please verify this ?
Many thanks.
The weight of the water has nothing to do with sucking power as liquids act very differently to solids.
The pipe can be a mile long but as soon as the end rises above the source pool the flow
will stop.
Stefan I'm pretty sure he's describing it the other way around and his diagram shows this. That is the water is going up in the straight part and down on the long part.
There's an extremely similar and recent thread about this found here;
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=7788.0 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=7788.0)
But his experiment should be more controlled. Like he said he didn't let the water back in the bucket as it was to small. I assume someone measured the water level for him continuously as he was measuring the height from the ground 10 feet away and compare it. Some poeple here immediately will find 1000 errors in this experiment.
I have a small long hose and will try the same but scaled down. This is one of those things were talk is useless. A 4 year old child can do this.
I just tried with about a 1m long and 4mm in diameter tube and I don't get his result. The water stops a centimeter before I hit the water level.
I played with water siphons recently in the hopes that it could spin a plastic water wheel. They just don't work because one end of the hose has to be lower than the other this means water has to defy gravity to return to the original tank above (not going to happen). This sort of perpetual motion is one I cannot dispute to work.
Cut my hose to 12' had it tied to a chain link fence with zip-ties, filled my bucket with water, set up my laser line. Can't see the line, will have to wait till later this afternoon when the shade hits that side of the house.
Is everybody else using a laser to get their results?
Here is a link to a picture of a pool that had to be designed to fit the curvature of the earth in order to get it to flow on all sides evenly.
http://deathstar.rutgers.edu/people/dtulloch/pics/boston.html
I am going to see if I can find more information about it, but think about this for a minute. If the sides had to be altered to get it to flow, this means that the earth's curvature does alter the height of water over long distances; even in the same container (pool). That means that, theoretically at least, it may be possible to have perpetual water flow in the same container of water. Just as long as the container is long enough that the curvature of the earth comes into play.
If the tube where a mile long, the curvature of the earth would drop by 4 inches. ( based off 10 ft drop for every 30 miles length.)
More magic water that flows uphill.
All of the water in the hose is above the source, so it must be magic water.
So is " level " circular?
Quote from: The Nephew on July 24, 2009, 01:40:41 PM
...
Is everybody else using a laser to get their results?
...
Why use a laser for a concept, which has been solved and understood many many centuries ago?
Babylonians, Egyptians, Mayans, ancient Greeks, etc, etc...They all knew the secret....
I think they were using a "Teflon" coated bamboo for their OU hydraulic stuff....
"Selfrunning waterhose water perpetual motion", eh?
Thanks, Stefan, for bringing this to our attention.
Jeeez....
Not surprised, after all it's the 13th century now....
2 inches in 10 feet = 2/120 = 1.67%. I think 2 inches in 10 feet is too hard to measure accurately. Maybe the guy thought he was working with a level surface, but wasn't?
Hi all I`m the one who did the experiment. I was thinking after reading the posts maybe i was off with my measurements. I did it again in a different location. I made sure all was level and got the same results. I dont believe I could be off level by 2 inches. I`m going for a foolproof test this weekend, I`m going to go buy a small long clear hose thie weekend and make a water level. I will redo it one more time. If i`m wrong I`ll offer a sincere appology, for i enjoy this site alot. But if I`m not do with info as you will. Dosnt seem like that big a deal anyway, at the rate of flow above intake, it woulld take alot of pipes to get a strong enough flow to turn a water wheel.
Quote from: craZy on July 24, 2009, 08:33:30 PM
Hi all I`m the one who did the experiment... Dosnt seem like that big a deal anyway, at the rate of flow above intake, it woulld take alot of pipes to get a strong enough flow to turn a water wheel.
If it's true, it's a very big deal.
after you get to far above intake air will enter hose. Also if you squeeze the end of hose a little it helps to stop air from entering end of hose.
on my second try at this i had the hose rise to only 14 inches above water intake. I tried to curve the hose back into bucket, but could not the flow would stop. I guess it only flows smoothly in a straight line
Quote from: craZy on July 25, 2009, 07:01:50 PM
on my second try at this i had the hose rise to only 14 inches above water intake...
Was that water intake, or water level? There is a difference.
Quote from: Bubba1 on July 25, 2009, 09:01:27 PM
Was that water intake, or water level? There is a difference.
I hope he didn't make such a basic mistake.
crazy, here's a simple test to confirm it. Fill two buckets equally with water. Move them apart and make sure they remain at equal height. Now let the outlet drop in the other bucket. Since you say it can flow 2 inches above the supposed water level you should have no problem letting it flow. The very second the water flows you instantly win.
Anyone can test this out who has access to a body of water, like a lake, or even just a large swimming pool. Unfortunately that is not the case for me. I have no body of water nearby.
Just use a hose 15 feet or longer in length.
Good luck.
Hi Jim,
I don’t even want to go there because I don’t believe the water weight is the reason the water would flow. I think that in order to eliminate any errors in “leveling†the experiment needs to be done in the same body of water; not in two separate buckets.
I believe this would work, but it needs to take into account the curvature of the earth. That is why the length of the hose is important. As I posted previously, the earth drops off at approximately 10 feet for every 30 miles in length. So a pipe that is a mile long and started out at the surface of the water would have the water level drop off a total of 4 inches over the length of the pipe. This means that the siphon effect would allow the water to flow even though it was at a higher altitude( as referenced to the water level) further down the pipeline. Water seeks its own level, but it does that in reference to the surface of the earth.
That means that a pipe or hose that is a quarter of a mile in length would have the water level drop off a total of one inch. That one inch is enough to get water to flow
P-Motion,
What would keep air from entering through the funnel at the bottom, up the pipe, and into the vacuum; or what would keep air from entering through the bottom drain of the large reservoir and bubbling up into the vacuum as the water drains out? If water can go up the funnel pipe, then so can air. This is also true for the bottom drain opening as well.
This is what I think would happen because air would naturally want to rush in to fill that vacuum.
Hello everyone,
Sadly I read this whole thread and nobody mentioned it.
That is right, it........ the water hose level...... the one that uses two clear ends on a water hose.... the one where no matter what shape the hose is in the water is at the same level at both ends.... great in building level buildings in ancient times. Only exception is the entire hose (the middle) needs to be lower than the ends being measured.
Now what if the hose was thirty miles long would it drop even one inch?
No, it would give the same distance from the CENTER of the Earth at both ends. There would be a straight level line that would need to go below ground level in order to be both straight and level with the center of the earth. The water hose would need to have the ends elevated by like ten feet plus in order to measure the water level because of the height at the center.
Water leaves the pool that is too long in the center because the center of that straight line is closer to the center of the Earth than the ends, and that makes it lower.
Think ocean. Does the water's surface curve?
Simple but deceptive,
Truth ;D
Work or not work, have no idea. What I wanted to bring to light is that Buba
miss quoted the facts a bit. Not two inches out of the bucket but two "feet". A
big difference there. For what its worth..
thay
Quote from: Thaelin on October 17, 2009, 06:46:41 PM
Work or not work, have no idea. What I wanted to bring to light is that Buba
miss quoted the facts a bit. Not two inches out of the bucket but two "feet". A
big difference there. For what its worth..
thay
What I was referring to was "what i came up with was about 2inches difference(ABOVE WATER INTAKE)." in the first post, with the emphasis on "ABOVE WATER INTAKE". Was the end of the hose 2 inches above the water intake (other end of the hose, understandable), or 2 inches above the water level (new physics)?
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deleted
Check. My booble. sorry.