so lets take an incline and allow a disk magnet to roll down it
lining the sides of the incline are coils for magnetic induction
now what would be the ratio for generating capacity of the disk magnet in relation to mass and strength of the magnet?
obviously EMF would act to slow down the magnet, and if it were too much the disk would stop rotating
taking this into account, what is the ratio of energy between raising the magnet to the top of the ramp vs. the energy generated by having it roll down the ramp
second question
if you had two magnets, (a) and (b), of the same mass but (b) being twice as strong in field strength as (a),
(assuming the same number of conductors spaced the same distance relative to the magnet)
what would the relationship be between generating capabilities
would (a) and (b) generate the same amount of electricity, because Lenz Law would act more against the stronger magnet,
or would (b) generate more, being slightly more efficient but still not enough to raise itself to the top of the ramp
or possibly (a) would have greater output for reasons unknown to me
cross my fingers someone has any idea what im talkin about
this one has me a little confused whenever i think about it
thanks in advance,
until next time
basically i want to know the relation between mass and strength in a magnet,
easier version would be if i made a crank generator and i have 2 magnets that i can swap out
with the same set up,
and same mass, one being twice as strong as the other.
i crank it the same amount of times using each magnet and i charge a battery
which one would be more efficient?
which yields more, or would it be the same yield of energy?
good luck
mr_bojangles said:
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...basically i want to know the relation between mass and strength in a magnet, ...
Okay, then, in either case, what you have is the action of an AC motor. The faster the AC rotor turns, the more power is generated and produced. Similarly, the steeper the ramp, or the more magnets along the ramp, the greater power produced. Both have increasingly "wild" frequency variance in magnitude as speed of movement is increased.
There should be electrical physics texts, with math calculations, that can show you how to predict the power produced
if you can transfer effective motion between the ramp and motor.
--Lee
i guess the easiest question to ask would be
does using a stronger magnet in a generator mean greater output if the mass stays the same
what i don't know is will the back EMF induced by the stronger magnet just cancel out any possible gain from using the stronger magnet
the only correlation i can see is that the more mass, the more angular momentum which would achieve a flywheel type affect
i feel like it makes sense that the stronger the magnet and the less mass the more efficient the generator would be but i want to make sure
bc if thats true than im almost positive theres a loop hole in there somewhere we can exploit
just give your opinion, you don't even have to say why, just tell me which you think would produce more energy
mr_bojangles said:
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the only correlation i can see is that the more mass, the more angular momentum which would achieve a flywheel type affect
just give your opinion, you don't even have to say why, just tell me which you think would produce more energy
Have a look at this:
http://www.animations.physics.unsw.edu.au/jw/electricmotors.html
Speed, according to the source above, is more of a factor. Although, I think for a transformer, a high turns ratio secondary would also contribute more to BEMF. A stronger magnet acting on a coil as well. Or a coil with more turns.
--Lee
ok first lets define "what" is creating the electricity...
the magnetic field, moving across the conductor.
bojangles is partly right in saying that "speed" is a factor.
but more accurately, Momentum is the value we look at.
the momentum of the moving magnet is directly porportional to the electrical energy created within a given coil.
next: lets simplify this arrangement by examining the function of the "ramp"...
the ramp decreases the gravitational vector, while extending the path of travel, resulting in the same momentum imparted onto the 'falling' magnet, from a given height.
so- lets take away the ramp and what we are left with is simply a vertically oriented solenoid.
Now.. the energy generated by a magnet of a given mass, is exactly the same as the energy required to lift this mass to its original height (minus applicable losses).
increasing the strength of the magnet, while keeping the mass the same, performs the same function as the "ramp".
the resistive flux generated in the coils slows the mangnet, while increasing the time is is generating a current through the coil.
the Momentum imparted on the magnet by the gravitational vector throughout its travel remains the same, and thus the generated electricity is identicle between the two magnets.
one will generate more current over a short time, and the latter will generate less current over a longer time. speaking in terms of energy, the two are equivalent.
two solenoids, in which the magnets are of the same mass
but are designed to operate within different time intervals,
comsume the same ammount of energy to send them upwards
and (again minus losses) generate the same ammount of energy when they 'fall'.
assuming a constant height, this time interval would be adjusted by the number of turns on the coil, or by the strength of the magnet. ( or both)
assuming a close to ideal efficiency in electrical conversion, and all losses accounted for;
this energy value is equal to = (Mass)*(Height)*(Gravity)
which is, coincidentally, the same energy value as required to mechanically lift the magnets to the top of the solenoid.
hope this clears things up a bit.
the question of the generator is a completely different scenario.
here you are using a turn-crank to impart the momentum into the moving magnets.
using stronger magnets will increase the force required to maintain the same angular velocity. (you have to crank harder)
where-as the gravitational vector is constant.
if you had a method of keeping your crank-power input the same, the result of the stronger magnets would be a slower rotational speed, and the exact same ammount of electrical energy generated.
@sm0ky
thanks man, couldn't find that specific an answer on the internet anywhere, been drivin me nuts
that was, however, my suspicion
i guess distance would be the key here
(in the case of the ramp)
i wonder if we could use a balanced lever or gears, simple machines and exploit the relationship between distance and mass, using a heavier counterweight to make another mass (a magnet) to move further than just applying the force directly
any takers?
mr_bojangles
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...i wonder if we could use a balanced lever or gears, simple machines and exploit the relationship between distance and mass, using a heavier counterweight to make another mass (a magnet) to move further than just applying the force directly
any takers?
Well, I think conservation of energy comes into the picture when mechanical systems are used. However, magnetic means of imparting movement are possibly something to the contrary: The basic premise behind the Bedini system(s) come to my mind.
Off-centered magnet torque applied in a circular motion can get around Lenz' law limitations
--Lee
i think we need to combine a gravity wheel with a permanent magnet motor by using the counter weights as our generating source, that way lenz law will only be inducted into the mass of the moving weight itself, and not interfere with the energy required to keep the wheel moving
in this way, were only dealing with the friction of the axle and the more mass we have-or need- could help with a flywheel effect in creating more angular momentum
thats all i have for now, might upload drawings later
any other ideas?