Hi @ all,
As i previously had said, I have in my current setup (2 x 400 turns 10 fillar coils) some 2.8-3.6 oscillating Amps and 70-90 volts at open, and still cannot charge a battery!
I read a little about caps and some say it can be useful in extracting energy out of a system ithout disrupting it. (RV theory)
Happy hour - Playing with Capacitors
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*** Firstly I must warn about the validity of my findings, since so far electrolytic caps have been employed in AC mode!!!
Puting a too large cap
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If i put a large cap, say 10,000uf, the system behaves as coils are shorted, and all normal, rotor speeds-up, input down etc. Circulating current in the cap is the same as in directly short. Cap's voltage at terminals is barely there. Say 0.5 volts.
Putting a too small cap
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By putting a small cap, system behaves as open circuit. The circulating current in cap is virtually none, and voltage is same as voltage at open. (almost)
Somewhere in the middle, the fun begins
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For my current setup, (in non closed magnetic flux mode - removed the bottom lamination) when i go below 400 uf of cap, the circulating current starts to GROW! (from 3.6 to 4 or 4.5) and voltage to build-up at cap terminals.
This procedure requires extensive cap-tunning, a capacitor bank is a MUST, but since have not so far, i played around with what a have in hand. (electrolytic caps :) )
By employing a cap of 260 uf value or there, i managed to achieved an 25 vac in cap's terminals and 4+ amps circulating in it.
The rotor was in a delicate ballance state that after that it starts to decelarates and input goes-up. (@ 2000 rpm range)
The scary thing
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i find out that if i employ a cap in that fine balance state, in a given RPM, in other RPM can behave a lot different. How much different??
Say voltage climbed in terminals some 90-100vac (higher that normal coils) and amps goes up to 7 or 8 or 9 amps!
BUT then it kicks in a DRAG as if the rotor has ABS disk brake system!
It slows down from say 1700rm to 0 it 2-3 secs.
Definately not useful state there, but its weird...
Bottom line
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A passive generator coil's state can be remarkably affected by the employment of a capacitor. No to mention, since the cap charges and discharges, that means energy is actually harvest from coil, without to mess speed-up (accelaration) as a load (battery) does.
It's quite possible that a "REASONANCE" state can be achieved (?) and OU to be manifested. BUT, when i say reasonance, i mean not the electric reasonance we know in LC circuit, but with the broader use of the term.
i.e. Reasonce in which state the maximum energy goes out with the minimum energy goes to the system (best COP)
Bottom line
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If cap tunning is desired and of any value, we should deal with a single passive generating coil or a set of coils wired in such a way so as to deal virtually, with 1 inductor.
- I just cannot imagine to have employed 3 or more idenpedent coils, and tune them with different caps. A nightmere indeed -
* A cap bank to adjust to certain rpm, the UF value so as rotor drag to be minimal if any and voltage x current at cap terminals to be maximum.
* A circuitry to extract energy from the caps.
That's my orienation now on.
Regards,
Baroutologos
I knew I was right in my assessment of you Barto...and it won't be long before you take this thing to the top.
Tesla did say there was magic in caps...when I read that it confirmed to me that my instinct on caps was correct.
I just don't have the time or the necessary theoretical knowledge of electronic components that you do.
Congrats on your discovery...you certainly deserve it, considering you tenacious work ethic.
Regards...
Thanks CAP for your kind words, i am terribly flattered and i should not :)
By the way, my knowledge in the Electric Engineering field is very very minute. Most people in here, actually know far more in the field than me.
I am not an inventor neither handscraft man. I deem myself as an novice re-searcher/replicator, that work on other people's work and yet not even close at successful one.
By the way, i proceed more by reading and trying things rather than by knowing anything. When i make an experiment, i try to keep my eyes and ears open, then make some rough measurements and see what works better and what does not.
Let's hope you are right about the eventual succesful happening, God willing :)
I continue extesively at posting here because all people around seem more capable at reproducing anything. See Minde's coils' output etc.
This is a team strungle as i see it, with anyone contributing as much he/she cans.
regards,
Baroutologos
I am in the same boat as you Barto...which is why I easily recognized you..I take the same approach as you.
I just don't have the time to become too involved, because of things going on in my life.
As with you, I do not cling to thing because I want it to be a certain way, I am open to all information.
Regards...
Further Experimentation of Lenz'less coils and caps
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All testing was conducting in 1500 rpm range. Coils alone (wired in series) give some 1.5 amps (shorted with accelaration) and 85 vac open air.
Making a Cap-Bank
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I made a draft cap bank of 0.5, 1,1,3.5,5,10,10,20,50 uf values. And started to investigate the cap effect. I find out they are TWO distinct "efficient operation zones".
It must be reported that by utilizing caps and climbing in amperage and voltage, acceleration does vanished and some burden does manifests.
The first ZOne - from zero Uf and going up.
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If you start with 0 uf (open end) voltage is max and current none, naturally. If i apply an 0.5uf, voltage again is almost max and some mili-amps are virtually circulating. No change to prime mover status.
By going incrementaly up,current starts to flow and voltage to drop at capacitor terminals. (till a point and again starts to climb)
At a marginal (for my setup) 14uf value voltage measured (in cap's leads) is 82vac and circulating current 1 amp. Prime mover is somehow loaded though.
Input rises from 2.95 amps (12v battery) to 3.65amps. (+ 9 watts)
If i dare to go in higher Uf, then current increases, voltage builds-up to very high values and prime mover cogs downs!
The second Zone
From large uf value (i.e. a virtual short to coil) and going down
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By employing a very large cap (say 1000uf), oscillating current is max (1.5 amps) and voltage at cap's terminals not even there. (almost zero)
By decreasing cap value current starts to GROW and voltage also.
The upper efficient cap value for my setup is 90uf.
At there the burden of the prime mover is almost the same (9-10 watts of more input) as the 14uf value BUT, oscillating current in cap is 2.6 amps and voltage at terminals 32 vac.
Bottom line
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They are two cap zones i can work with. One with high voltage low current and one high current low voltage at same input cost. See concept graphs for my situation.
Question
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Can anyone calculate how much energy can be potentialy extracted from my system?
Current orientation
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to try to build a diode-plug circuit and, at least try, to extract some energy??
Regards,
Baroutologos
Hi Mr Thane,
Thanks for the topic creation. Sorry man for bogging your thread with info, somehow irrelevant to it, (although i think it is quite relevant) neither my intetion is to derail anyone from your device replication.
I proceed according my findings, observations and "hunch".
Good research to all of us, and lets hope, soon enough (in this life :) ) to possess a real OU machine.
Regards,
Baroutologos
ps: By the way, the procedure mentioned IS NOT LENZLESS. But perepiteia setup (in the wider sense) helps A LOT at reducing it.
I made some more playing around with current setup, just to consolidate the first observations. Those figures are when accelaration is GONE and some mild Lenz' action appears.
Indeed, no surprises. The thing is very predictable. At 1500 rotor RPM,
* Coils alone 59 vac and shorted 1.6 amp oscillating. (59 * 1.6 = 94.4) and full accelaration.
* Coils with 90uf value 36vac and 2.6 amps (36 * 2.6 = 93.6) (no accelaration -mild drag)
* Coils with 14uf value 82vac and 1 amp (82 * 1 = 82) (no accelaration -mild drag)
As you can see, totally empirically the same VA result more or less, with or without the employement of caps. (acceleration is another issue)
The thing with caps is that they temporarily store (each half cycle) the "current" and that either way (with or without them) will oscillate.
High Drag Area
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As far as the amplification of amps x volts in the "high drag area" concerns, i believe so far its about a resonance-cummulative effect that perhaps does not add any energy to system, rather stacks each cycle and keep voltage / amperage mounting.
Your views please.
Regards,
Baroutologos
Some more minor experimenting, for those involved and understand what i say here.
This time caps with a diode (1n5408) were employed.
Findings:
Although coils voltage measured with my meter is 58 vac at 1500 rpm, the cap behind the diode levels at 71 vDC.
An interesting thing also is that the time the cap is connected voltage in cap is launched at 110 vDC and if kept connected to diode, it fall gradually down to 71 vdc.
Caps employed are induction motor run caps 1uf, 10uf and 50 uf(shown before). All same results.
Question:
In 58 v AC coil's output, is it normal caps to charge after diode at 71 Volt?
during first application of the cap, why voltage in cap after diode goes to 110 volt?
An notice peculiar thing.
If the coils are shorted via the diode, the whole machine, hums, cogs and slows down. If coils shorted without any diode, the machine perfoms like heaven. Quiet operation, draw input goes down, rpm go up etc. i.e. Normal Perepeteia action.
Any knowledge about that?
Regards,
Baroutologos
"An notice peculiar thing.
If the coils are shorted via the diode, the whole machine, hums, cogs and slows down. If coils shorted without any diode, the machine perfoms like heaven. Quiet operation, draw input goes down, rpm go up etc. i.e. Normal Perepeteia action.
Any knowledge about that?
Regards,
Baroutologos"
If you tried the diode once in each direction and it did not work both ways, then yes it shows the coil can only work in bi-directional mode, which is OK and very very very important to know.
Thank you - Thank you and again Thank You for all this great info. Man oh man. I will have to review it more then several times.
@b - just a thought - please look again at the diagram I posted on @THs thread, with that little coil at the end. That coil via a cap to your coil, but not on the cross laminate. It has to be alone. Think about it first very carefully and let me know if you like the idea. Basically, the big coil will charge up, then the cap will off-phase a discharge into the smaller coil. That discharge is to help the rotation.
If the cap can be chosen to adjust the two coils speed to the optimal drive rotor speed, this may give the rotor magnets the boot in the ass it needs to get going. I would expect the rotor to oscillate somewhat but at higher speeds it should flatten out.
Damn nice work and the info is just priceless.
This will help me and others plan.
wattsup
PS: Do you know that when you change the wires around on your coil, you also charge the end of the coils polarity to the other polarity. So when you do tests, you may need to do it one way, then switch the wires, then try it again. This is also true when you introduce a diode into the circuit. Try one way, reverse and try again. Also it will be good to confirm the coil arrangement you used. Is it double coils with the laminate bridging together, or one single coil or two single coils.
The idea of a second coil receiving the bigger coil cap discharge is to see if let's say the north magnet is on the coil, it should get a north discharge from the second coil to help the rotor drive push it through by repulsion.
Thanks wattup for your kind words. We are open source here.
So many FE devices are said to have been made by secretive inventors, yet no one around. As if they took the secret to their tombs.
So open source is one way here. Period.
Regarding your advices and diagrams i do not neglect anything. I have limited time/funds and proceed to what i perceive as must by my standards.
Please, feel free to vigorously join the experimenting efforts and altogether report findings. exchange ideas etc.
Do not hesitate to start from somewhere since before you take some hands on experience you could not possibly imagine how your final setup would be. Mine is ver 2.2 and still progressing. :)
regards,
Baroutologos
ps: yes the diode short, hum-cog-slow down effect is both ways(with the diode) manifested in my current setup. Only a alternative current assures smooth operation. coils are series connected, air suspended (no bottom close-flux lamination)
Back to experiementation again!
I spent some happy hours previous afternoon studying my coils with a draft cap bank so as to study resonance or near resonance volts-current alternating in coils.
My today experiementing was focus on coil-to-magnet GAP.
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1cm
Being my rotor magnets of Nd type, i decided to make the gap some 1 cm.
Coils were posing a minimum load to rotor by cogging. Current volatge creation is greatly reduced also.
Again, if i make the suitable cap combo, my coils at 2200 rpm, although far from rotor, pose a considerable drag as if were near it when progressing towards resonance.
3cm
At this distance, the energy creation in the coils is barely there. but, if i try to resonate the coils with my caps, again, rotor -after a point- start to have considerable drag till motor cannot rotate it.
Yes from this far!
5cm
Coil output are 3 vdc and when shorted 70 mA circulate. When resonating with caps i can manage to achieve some 30 vac between cap leads and 400 mA current circulating. But that's it. No more amplification from such distance.
That's all for now
Regards,
Baroutologos
Results from the workbench.
i decided for eliminating phasing problems to remove a coil and proceed epxerimenting with single coil. (400 turns ten-fillar 29 awg)
Neo rotor of alternating polarity
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With the 12 alternating neo magnet rotor, i can managed to achieved some 65 vac of voltage in cap and 2 amps circulating the system. (motor is heavy loaded that way consuming 4 amps at 15,5 volts).
Changing rotor
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I though, since we are concern with resonance effects and not for direct energy production, to restore my old SSG driven 6 poles all N face out ferrite magnet rotor that its attracting force is a Joke comparing to strong neos.
Surprisingly, i could obtain at 2100 rpm, some 46 vac in cap and 2 amps in circulation in the system. But those are the top values. Rotor drag is baraly there, comparing to neo magnets for same ac/amps production.
So, for resonance effects i concluded that the magnets are just the stimulation, for acVolts/amps buildup.
(In neo setup top values can go as far as 10 amps and voltage as 500, whereas the rotor breaks as hell, so no use)
The peculiar effect
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In neo-rotor setup, if i aproach coil to magnet and short coil direct without any caps, almost 2 amps are circulating in it. Coil gets slightly warm, whereas core is cool. (coil resistance 1 ohm)
When i try to resonate in (near resonance) with a cap, in the same current circulating, core gets HOT. Almost burns to touch. Notice my cores are from audio equipment designed for ultra low hysteresis/eddies losses, high Q.
Again, those features are not stopping the core from getting hot when in near resonace mode. The same effect is there either with neos or ferrite magnet rotor. (so not magnets do that in first place)
The heat in my setup, DOES NOT come from windings.
Any suggestions?
Regards,
Baroutologos