This may be somewhat related to ley lines, etc.
It's well know that a power line will conduct a voltage even when disconnected, is it not reasonable to deduce than that a long enough line will begin to conduct electricity not as a result of electricity but as a result of it being on the surface of the earth and since the earth is rotating, it is thus moving in an otherwise stationary field? Wouldn't this be the same effect as the vertical stator homopolar generator:
I've looked everywhere for a picture of the concept, but, this crude one will have to do (the rotor picture exists in some book published in the early 1920's):
As the rotor spins, a current builds up in the arms, blue, from one end to another...
wouldn't the earth line conduct a current when oriented from north to south?
This is one of the reasons why 'most' power lines run East to West, the Earth and the Moon have field lines that induce electrical current flow into the lines and sometimes would blow out the transformers.
I don't know if they still have problems with this as of today but at one time it use to be a pain in the power companies butt.
Jerry ;)
It is of the immerse importance to prove if Earth magnetic field is stationary (And Earth is homopolar generator) or rather Earth magnetic field rotate along Earth rotation with the same speed (and maybe causing gravity field).
Most of power lines are grounded so I suppose any generated HV is dissipated to Earth. Am I right ?
try the experiment.
Jerry ;)
can you explain the purpose of such experiment ?
wouldnt the wire (or stator) have to be standing still or moving the opposite direction of the magnetic field?
obviously a wire on the earth stays in the same position in respect of the earth, so wouldnt it rotate with the field inducing no electricity?
if the magnetic field is not rotating i think you would be able to do this, but i believe the field rotates with the earth, so therefore would you not have to keep the wire stationary in comparison to the earth to allow the field to induce electricity
this would mean you would have to have the wire traveling the speed of the earth in an opposite direction
NASA did an experiment where they just allowed a wire around 3 miles to float in space, it induced so much electricity it burned up and broke off
i think its the same application, they got the wire out of the gravitational pull from the earth, but not the magnetic field because it is a lot stronger than the gravitational "field" of the earth
getting just out of reach allowed it to be stationary in comparison to the rotating earth with the field rotating with it allowing induction
this is all speculation but its how i see it
until next time
Quote from: mr_bojangles on September 29, 2009, 10:16:48 PM
wouldnt the wire (or stator) have to be standing still or moving the opposite direction of the magnetic field?
obviously a wire on the earth stays in the same position in respect of the earth, so wouldnt it rotate with the field inducing no electricity?
if the magnetic field is not rotating i think you would be able to do this, but i believe the field rotates with the earth, so therefore would you not have to keep the wire stationary in comparison to the earth to allow the field to induce electricity
this would mean you would have to have the wire traveling the speed of the earth in an opposite direction
NASA did an experiment where they just allowed a wire around 3 miles to float in space, it induced so much electricity it burned up and broke off
i think its the same application, they got the wire out of the gravitational pull from the earth, but not the magnetic field because it is a lot stronger than the gravitational "field" of the earth
getting just out of reach allowed it to be stationary in comparison to the rotating earth with the field rotating with it allowing induction
this is all speculation but its how i see it
until next time
Hi bojangles.
I think the different layers of Earth's magma bands move at different speeds compared to the Earth's crust. the core as well. the moon has a slight induction of field on the Earth as well, not very strong but it exists.
you could wrap the Earth from North to South and back again with motor windings to capture this source but it would greatly ugly our planet.
what we want is something small, say with in 50 to 100 square miles of land area to run the entire country as a whole. as of now, solar tech can do this.
Jerry
jadaro2600 said:
Quote
...It's well know that a power line will conduct a voltage even when disconnected, is it not reasonable to deduce than that a long enough line will begin to conduct electricity not as a result of electricity but as a result of it being on the surface of the earth and since the earth is rotating, it is thus moving in an otherwise stationary field? ...
I was under the impression the Earth's magnet field was usually thought of being non-moving in terms of magnetic lines. They rotate in time with the Earth's core.
To create a current with a wire, the wire should move against the Earth's rotation and also be set north to south in orientation, so as to intercept the Earth's magnetic lines. Would this make sense? If there's another, or better, explanation, I like to read it.
--Lee
Quote from: onthecuttingedge2005 said:
quote]
... what we want is something small, say with in 50 to 100 square miles of land area to run the entire country as a whole. as of now, solar tech can do this.
A HAARP ELF antenna could do that, as a receiver, to diodes, capacitors and batteries. 100 square miles could generate a significant amount of power, even way out in the country; not near civilization.
--Lee
Quote from: the_big_m_in_ok on September 30, 2009, 12:19:38 AM
A HAARP ELF antenna could do that, as a receiver, to diodes, capacitors and batteries. 100 square miles could generate a significant amount of power, even way out in the country; not near civilization.
--Lee
Which also explains, they stood on a sea of glass with harps in their hands.
I understand it now.
Big M, you will go down in history with the big G. make it so!
Thank you.
Jerry ;)
Jadaro:
Quoteis it not reasonable to deduce than that a long enough line will begin to conduct electricity not as a result of electricity but as a result of it being on the surface of the earth and since the earth is rotating, it is thus moving in an otherwise stationary field?
It is always about changing magnetic fields with respect to time. It is just a giant version of what happens when you move a coil of wire near a magnet. The Earth is rotating slowly so the change in magnetic field with respect to time is very very slow. The magnetic field itself is barely changing because it lines up with the surface of the Earth. So this is not a viable way to extract energy from the rotating Earth.
Edge:
QuoteThis is one of the reasons why 'most' power lines run East to West, the Earth and the Moon have field lines that induce electrical current flow into the lines and sometimes would blow out the transformers.
The only issue is solar storms that rain charged particles down on the Earth. No relationship with East-West vs. North-South. Moving charged particles represent a large amount of changing electric current, generating millions of times more rate of change of magnetic flux than the Earth's magnetic lines of force, and that induces real energy into power lines. You probably are aware of the famous power outage in Quebec Canada in 1989.
MileHigh
The Big:
QuoteA HAARP ELF antenna could do that, as a receiver, to diodes, capacitors and batteries. 100 square miles could generate a significant amount of power, even way out in the country; not near civilization.
You have a problem.... receive what? There is no free lunch raining down from the sky.
MileHigh
Quote from: MileHigh on September 30, 2009, 12:49:43 AM
...There is no free lunch raining down from the sky.
MileHigh
Okay, why not?
http://www.rexresearch.com/plauson/plauson.htm
--Lee
onthecuttingedge2005
Quote
Thank you.
Jerry ;)
You're welcome.
--Lee
The Big:
You shouldn't take an article written in 1922 too literally. You have probably seen clips on YouTube where people use antennas, diodes and capacitors go get power from the air. They are lucky if they can charge a 10 uF cap to 5 volts in 24 hours. That's something like nanowatts of power.
With some sort of large antenna array, the amount of power you could extract from the air would probably be something between mircowatts or nanowatts of power per square meter.
A 100 square mile antenna array would be the world's largest megaproject. The amount of energy expended and the cost to build it would be astronomical.
The number crunching on the return on investment doesn't look very good. :)
MilleHigh
MileHigh said:
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You have probably seen clips on YouTube where people use antennas, diodes and capacitors go get power from the air.
I have indeed. One guy got 120V max @ .03 A max(he claimed). The video is on one of the Tesla forums, I think.
Quote
They are lucky if they can charge a 10 uF cap to 5 volts in 24 hours. That's something like nanowatts of power.
That would be 3.6 watts on a good day, and maybe .5-.75 watt on a typical day. But not *nanowatts.*
Quote
With some sort of large antenna array, the amount of power you could extract from the air would probably be something between mircowatts or nanowatts of power per square meter.
There are several patents that were suspended as tethers from balloons. High altitude is also high voltage. Now suppose the balloons were attached to a circular pole system as well as being high altitude balloons? Their accumulation effects may add to each other?
I realize one needs a lot more wire to get the same amount of power away from municipal power lines. I said as much on another post.
But, copper wire isn't really expensive unless it needs replacing. Chemically treated poles are more expensive, but they should last, especially if they're made of something like a South Amercan wood used to build piers. Galvanized steel as high as a radio transmission tower?
Quote
A 100 square mile antenna array would be the world's largest megaproject. The amount of energy expended and the cost to build it would be astronomical.
A square, interconnecting grid may not be necessary. Radiating wires coming to a central point should be enough, for a simpler alternative. They do have to be long, though.
Quote
The number crunching on the return on investment doesn't look very good. :)
There's a rumor it was done, either in Alaska or Canada. National defense was the motivation. For that reason, it didn't matter what it cost. A way can be found for enough of a reason.
--Lee
The Big:
QuoteThat would be 3.6 watts on a good day, and maybe .5-.75 watt on a typical day. But not *nanowatts.*
It's imperative that you understand the difference between power and energy. I suggest that you research it. Just for fun, I will pose a question: If your antenna can charge a 10 uF cap to 5 volts in 24 hours, what is the average power level? You don't have to answer, but the real question is are you capable of answering it.
Your treatise is interesting, but not practical. I am not going to get into a big debate with you but the bottom line is that you simply can't get useful and reliable amounts of power from some sort of an antenna arrangement. The EM energy density is simply too small to make anything at all practical. You can generate millions and millions times more power per square meter using solar cells.
MileHigh
I think I misunderstood my own thoughts, the parallel bars will conduct, however, the brush would be stationary, and the wire is not.
I'll have to look around some more for the book I read this in, but for now, the idea seems dead.
MileHigh
said:
Quote
... I suggest that you research it. Just for fun, I will pose a question: If your antenna can charge a 10 uF cap to 5 volts in 24 hours, what is the average power level? You don't have to answer, but the real question is are you capable of answering it. ...
http://www.mpoweruk.com/alternatives.htm
http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-ohm.htm
Well, okay, the way you ask the question, "No." I'll have to try and remember that power is energy over time. A watt is 3,600 joules/hr. A joule is 1 amp acting on 1 ohm in one second.
Capacitors don't necessarily exhibit resistance like a resistor, though. Correct me if I'm wrong. And a farad is merely a voltage potential.
The capacitor you illustrate would have an energy level of = .000001 X 5 X 5 X .5 = .0000125 joule
...assuming the capacitor was fully charged?
--Lee
I have to agree with mile high,Until those who have claimed 50 kilowatts from the sky with only a small box of contents and 200 feet of antenna wire tell the rest of us how they did it.I have to agree that the antenna systems I've seen on u-tube or here at overunity.com don't produce much power at all.22 joules is not much power at all.Which is what Tommey Reed said he got on his video clip.Still its wonderful that its there at all.Triffid
The surface of the earth moves at about 1000 miles an hour.Gravity holds us down so it seems that we do not move.Triffid
triffid said:
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I have to agree with mile high,Until those who have claimed 50 kilowatts from the sky with only a small box of contents
Henry Moray did only have a few parts, but his antennae were large. I think some kind of Electret effect was working in his prototypes. If so, he wouldn't necessarily need a lot of parts---maybe not even big ones if his antenna acted like sort of a capacitor with a large value resistor at the ground end.
Quote
...and 200 feet of antenna wire tell the rest of us how they did it.I have to agree that the antenna systems I've seen on u-tube or here at overunity.com don't produce much power at all.22 joules is not much power at all.Which is what Tommey Reed said he got on his video clip.Still its wonderful that its there at all.Triffid
And others have said when they looked at the frequency appearing on the wire, it was 60 Hz. Power grids are being tapped. Getting away from them might need a HAARP-sized system? I think so, at the very least.
--Lee