Hi guys, I know this is not the right topic but I cannot for the life of me find a magnetic section?
I enjoy the idea of idea of free energy and as an Engineer love to sketch designs for machines that all of my education tells me cannot work. I designed this device recently and uses a pair of magnetic V gates to propel the rotor and a pair of cams and followers to jump the "sticky spot" and thus prevent stalling. The device will naturally not work and does not use any sort of new tech but was instead intended to be a small(ish) desk toy that will show the theory of perpetual motion but also why (so far) it will not work.
I might have one of these produced just to play with, maybe it'll inspire something new?
www.jkgdesign.co.uk (http://www.jkgdesign.co.uk)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwLwEs0iu7U (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwLwEs0iu7U)
I had thought of an idea similar to that quite a while back, but with my version the cam would have been it the center of the wheel.
I removed the centre of the cam so that the bulk of the rotors weight is located about the outer circumference (the rotor also has a lot of the the inner section removed) and thus should act like a flywheel gaining inertia which (in theory) could carry the rotation past the sticky spot.
@jsngeorge423
Where does the device get stuck? I like the cam idea. Are you using springs or gravity on the stator mount to push the stator back down? I wondered about this a while back. I kept thinking that if the proper springs weren't used (or stator too heavy) there would be too much force preventing the up stroke of the cam when it came around. I wondered if a train wheel type design would be better?
staffman,
The device would get stuck at the point where one V gate ends and another begins as the horzontal magnet would be have a very strong attraction to the last magnet on the v gate (if that makes sense :-s ).
I toyed with the idea of springs to return the bridge section but decided against it. I have instead designed the gates to operate by attraction rather than repaultion and thus no springs are required as the bridge is always pulled towards the rotor magnetically. (All things being equal the simplest option is usually the best)
I had a brainwave ;D...
Could the cam be replaced with repelling magnets, that will get rid of some of the friction.
Quote from: jsngeorge423 on December 02, 2009, 07:33:26 AM
Hi guys, I know this is not the right topic but I cannot for the life of me find a magnetic section?
I enjoy the idea of idea of free energy and as an Engineer love to sketch designs for machines that all of my education tells me cannot work. I designed this device recently and uses a pair of magnetic V gates to propel the rotor and a pair of cams and followers to jump the "sticky spot" and thus prevent stalling. The device will naturally not work and does not use any sort of new tech but was instead intended to be a small(ish) desk toy that will show the theory of perpetual motion but also why (so far) it will not work.
I might have one of these produced just to play with, maybe it'll inspire something new?
www.jkgdesign.co.uk (http://www.jkgdesign.co.uk)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwLwEs0iu7U (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwLwEs0iu7U)
do you plan on building this in real life? how soon?
I have no plans to produce this at the moment although I do have the digital part files for the entire machine that could all be rapid prototyped in less than 24 hours. Would cost a fortune though!
I am planning on submitting the design to a producer of gadgets (When I find one) for sale in gadget shops or sites like "IWantOneOfThose.com" as I have had quite a few people enquire about this device.
Has anybody else drawn up their designs? I think that even if the device doesn't work they still tend to look quite interesting.
@jsngeorge423
I think you should build this thing!
vgate mite happen with round mags
Think of a v gate setup as jumping off a cliff. Have you ever seen anyone, other than a hang glider, return to the top using the 'momentum' of the fall? I haven't either...
Maybe not the 'fall', but I've seen one return to the top using the momentum of the summer once....
HG's are cool
Just remember it's not a cliff. It's circular, and cliffs aren't circular.
Quote from: Rapadura on March 04, 2010, 09:58:01 PM
Just remember it's not a cliff. It's circular, and cliffs aren't circular.
The v gate wheel is a circular magnetic cliff.
This is one of those topics that some can not understand and we just have to know when to stop trying to explain and let them build and learn for themselves.
Nightlife,
What will they learn.
When CLaNZeR was playing with the drum v-gate design. I suggested a similar cam but sideways instead of up and down. It would be less friction. The biggest problem is it seems to not be strong enough to use a mechanical cam. So I would suggest a counter balance to lighten the friction of the cam.
Alan
a simple plexi track mounted on the "Circular Cliff" hehe for the stator to ride on along with some lubricant how ever there would also have to be a rubber stopper so at the catch point it would not get flung down. Obvious it is not the best solution but it is the most crude and uses likely the least amount of power baring that we could make a timed actuator that uses less energy then the friction this track of plexi would create.
Checkmate energy crisis solved !
Or at least I would like to hope it is checkmate. However, I do request that if anyone uses my design for profit that they simply supply me and my family and friends with one for no charge once there profit netted an amount worthy of this weather design is up to infinate party stage or not. Contact me via PM on this board once the stage is met.
OK so what I am just another person who says I have a dream!
Good Day!
And where is your design? You mean to send a PM to you to learn?
Gyula
@All
If you happen to have one of these wheels
made up, here are three things one can try.
a) You can cut the energy required to move the top
piece in half by having two *synchronized* wheels
of opposite polarity running some distance away
from one another. When one wheel shoves the N
pole of the top piece away from it's sticky spot
it also shoves the S pole of the top piece into place
on the other synchronized wheel. The wheels each
makes one power turn, then cams the magnet away,
then one turn idling. That should do it.
That idea came from the magnet piston engine designs.
b) Use the idea that Steorn is developing concerning
use of toroids to block the magnetic fields of a magnet.
This would be based in using an electronic pulse to
block the magnetic field of a magnet and then recovering
the energy circulating in the toroid that made up the pulse.
A mechanical generator would supply only the lost make-up
power.
That idea came from other Steorn threads and is still being
developed there. It is probably based on the toroids gaining
energy from environmental heat. (maxwell's demon)
c) Use a piece of soft ferrite that is initially non-magnetic
but becomes magnetized when used in a magnetic circuit
in the presence of a powerful magnet. Only a point of
contact with another piece of iron would need to be moved.
and not the whole ferrite metal top piece.
That idea comes from the Quinn the Australian thread where
he demonstrated this bulk ferrite magnetization technique. It
would need to be re-worked for this application.
:S:MarkSCoffman
There are numerous options for moving the stator at the right moment. However, I thought it should be first tried a purely mechanical system, with no electricity, because I tend to think that the conversion of mechanical energy to electricity is a huge waste of energy. Perhaps the purely mechanical idea of using a cam should work, and a "perpetuum mobile" can be built . If not, approaches involving electricity can be tried.
Ah, I have not posted yet in this thread my favorite videos of V Gate wheels (posted only in the two other threads):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ux4qfizL0xg
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbj3rIFVb5w
Love these vids!
Well not a bad idea I thought anyways nothing wrong with sharing the ida aye?
Quote from: P-Motion on March 05, 2010, 09:34:40 PM
It might not be what he thinks. With something that has been built, then different ways of working around the problem might be tried. One of them could work.
But without building one, nothing can be seen.
Jim
I was thinking that if he built one, he would then see what we have been trying to tell him. You are correct that by him doing so, he may think of a way that has not been tried and just may work. All in all, it's the expirience that he needs to learn from that will help him in the future. I had to do it just as many others, which has led me to new discoveries that just may work. The build's create dreams which helps us think of new and better ways.
OK, I just imagined an experiment to try to clarify some things about the V gate wheel.
This experiment involves a large neodymium magnet attached to a spring that is fixed to a wall, a magnetic ball of neodymium and a inclined track.
The large magnet will atract the magnetic ball, accelerating the ball and making the ball go up on the track.
Here is a visualization of the system before we release the magnet that is attached to the spring under tension:
When the ball is half its way going up on the track, we release the large magnet, and the spring under severe tension will very quickly pull the large magnet to the wall, at a large distance from the track, so there will be no more attraction between the large magnet and the ball.
Even so, I imagine, the ball, that was accelerated already, will continue its way up, until the end of the track.
I have two questions:
1) Will this really happen? When the magnet is quickly pulled back by the spring, the ball, that was already being accelerated, will continue its way up, and it can reach the end of the track?
2) If this happens, someone can imagine any relation between the magnetic force of attraction of the magnets and the force of the spring pulling the larger magnet to the wall? Or those are two separated systems?
Hi Rap.
the sorry thing is, if the attracting and or repelling magnet has enough influence to attract it or repel it then it probably has enough influence to hold it and visa verse. I don't mean to be negative in your post but magnetic fields are usually static by nature, the fields are rather close, either attract or repel and or not. they fall off rapidly with proportion to distance over infinity.
I imagined this experiment because, in the V gate wheel, apparently the attraction between the stator and the wheel at the moment when the stator begins to rise, lifted by human hand, don't cause deceleration in the wheel, maybe because of the angle of departure:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ux4qfizL0xg
Notice as the direction in which the stator departs from the wheel is the same direction of the rotation, it departs in a direction that favors the rotation, rather than undermine the rotation. The same principle of the experiment I imagined above: the departure of the larger magnet favours the upward movement of the ball, because of the angle of departure, the direction of the departure (same direction of the upward movement of the ball).
And remember this periodic departure is NOT what is causing the wheel to spin. The magnetic attraction in the REST of the rotation (let we say, 300 degrees of a 360 degrees rotation) is what is causing the acceleration of the wheel.
Quote from: Rapadura on March 07, 2010, 12:16:40 AM
And remember this periodic departure is NOT what is causing the wheel to spin. The magnetic attraction in the REST of the rotation (let we say, 300 degrees of a 360 degrees rotation) is what is causing the acceleration of the wheel.
like every one else who tries to capture more energy than the hand puts in quietly gets quieter because they find out there is nothing to brag about further. their reputation now becomes at stake so they clam up, hopefully some conspiracy comes along and revives it. everybody seems to blame their faults on everyone else. the magnets have stored energy, it requires an enormous amount of energy to make modern NEO magnets.
but yet people think they have an understanding of how to extract that stored energy with out loss. only to realize if they could they would get less energy then what it took to make the magnet itself. magnets are only stored energy. like a hard drive. a store of information that doesn't last forever. the more it is used the more it has to be re magnetized with the return of the writer head. there are losses.
Ladies and gentlemen...
EUREKA!
Dear friends. I think I discovered why the "V Gate Wheel" accelerates so well... In fact, I discovered that we don't really need any "V". Instead of "V Gate Wheel" it should be named "SMOT wheel". And i think I discovered the power of the "circular SMOT".
Dear friends, everyone knows the "secret" of any SMOT is that the "next magnet" is always stronger than the "previous magnet". This is the principle of SMOT. The first magnet is the weakest, and the last magnet is the strongest.
The "SMOT wheel" is not different. Well, the difference between a SMOT wheel and a linear wheel is that usually, in a linear SMOT, the SMOT itself is the "stator", and the ball is the "runner". In a "SMOT wheel", the SMOT is the rotor, and the ball (or cylinder) is the stator!
So, I discovered that, in a SMOT wheel, we don't need a V. We only need a gap, large enough to assure that, when our beloved stator approaches the wheel again, coming back from "exile", the "big bad" strongest magnet of the SMOT will be very far away, and the distance will make its attraction force towards the stator NOT be stronger than the attraction force of the WEAKEST magnet.
And I discovered a lot of other things that I will share with you in the image below. Please, analyse it carefully before start insulting me :D
Quote from: onthecuttingedge2005 on March 07, 2010, 12:58:30 AM
it requires an enormous amount of energy to make modern NEO magnets.
Dear Jerry, if the device is well constructed, it could work using natural magnets, made of natural magnetite. So, to we not feel guilty that we are violating the "law of conservation of energy", we can think of magnetite as a "fossil fuel". A very efficient "fossil fuel". :D
The faster mr v gate wheel goes, the further down the canyon you have fallen. Every little gain in speed has it's corresponding hike back to the top as you hurtle toward the bottom Wile E Coyote-style.
Meep meep
See Link;
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=10034.0