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Discussion board help and admin topics => Half Baked Ideas => Topic started by: sparks on January 01, 2010, 02:12:21 PM

Title: Ocean thermal energy conversion
Post by: sparks on January 01, 2010, 02:12:21 PM
A gas is heated to high  pressures by thermal energy collected in an ocean submerged heat exchanger.  The pressure is stored and released by a locked piston.  Upon pressure rise of a certain degree the piston is released. The piston mass energy is deposited on a flywheel via a ratcheting device or any other suitable means.  The sudden drop in pressure allows the piston to return to its initial position due to the heat lag of the exchanger not being able to supply heat fast enough to maintain the temperature of the expanded gas. Gravity returning the mass of the piston to its home position where it is locked and loaded for the next cycle. 
Title: Re: Ocean thermal energy conversion
Post by: brian334 on January 01, 2010, 03:24:53 PM
How do you condense the gas to reuse it?
Title: Re: Ocean thermal energy conversion
Post by: sparks on January 01, 2010, 05:11:57 PM
   The gas upon release of the piston expands into the space vacated by the piston converting its thermal energy into the kinetic energy of the piston.  The gas temperature drops drastically allowing for the return stroke of the piston to be accomplished without a phase change.  Phase change could be used but why wait around for that much heat exchange when you can go right to work repressurizing the cylinder?  The gas always stays on the heat exchanger side just expands and contracts depending on how much thermal energy it has in it.
Title: Re: Ocean thermal energy conversion
Post by: brian334 on January 02, 2010, 06:48:02 AM
Sparks,
We need a drawing, after the gas pushes the piston down somehow the gas
has to get back into the pressurized area.
Title: Re: Ocean thermal energy conversion
Post by: sparks on January 02, 2010, 10:21:37 AM
  @Brian

   Here is what I had in mind.  The piston in this case does not drive a mechanical device it drives a magnet through a coil which creates and electrical pulse of energy passing first up and then back through the coil.  The walls of the heat exchanger become very cold when the gas is allowed to expand.  Therefore it is important that the walls of the exchanger are thick.  If the walls are not thick enough the pressure of the gas will not drop enough to allow the piston to return to its home position so that it can be latched in place.  Once the piston release has allowed the gas to expand and rush into the column it becomes cool enough and the pressure of the gas drops enough to allow the piston to return to it's home position.  The gas is never allowed to leak to the atmosphere and is stopped at the piston sealing rings.  Refridgerants can be designed to exert a pressure of 450pounds square inch  at 50 degrees.  Atmospheric pressure is about 14psi.  The piston upon release with no load will shoot out of the top of the column like a rocket so there is alot of probelms to overcome getting it to actually work but it is very doable.  The gas does not condense into a liquid like in an airconditioner.  It just goes from a highpressure full of bouncing around molecules to a relatively lowpressure where the molecules dont have enough thermal energy to bounce around as much.
This allows enough time for the piston to return to home position and allow the heat from the ocean to pass through the resistance of the heatexchanger wall to speed them up again.
Title: Re: Ocean thermal energy conversion
Post by: jadaro2600 on January 02, 2010, 11:41:12 AM
Very interesting, but rather than talk about the machine at hand, I would rather mention that the existence of geothermal sources other than the bottom of the ocean are more predictable.  It is well known that those hot springs under water are given to failure and are of a sporadic nature.  The also contain a great deal of isolated life in an otherwise desolate sea floor.

You, in other words, will have to deal with all these things when placing a source.

When using geothermal, it is best to do so on land, most active regions can
't be easily distinguished from non active regions, and facilities are minimal.  Undersea generation requires an enormous commitment of capital for maintenance.

Conversely, you may consider using the salinity differential as a heat exchange mechanism, then densities differ and thus a higher gradient is present.
Title: Re: Ocean thermal energy conversion
Post by: sparks on January 02, 2010, 07:11:28 PM
   Jadaro,


   This machine could be operated on land also.  Unlike a stirling engine it does not rely on temperature differential but pressure differential of the gas.  This would not be a steady running machine but more of an oscillating machine.  A steady temperature as one would find in the ocean would be advantageous with the trade off of encrustation and insulation of the heatexchanger due to oxidation.  Thanks for commenting.