@all
I got one more idea last night , i personally don't have the tools and materiel , to build it , but maybe some of you do ...
We need to build a toroid from Bismuth ...
I have gathered some info on the subject .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-9SQfDzZn4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUoUSz-hD8A
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bismuth
Mark
Looks interesting. Any other results to report? ...it might not be so difficult to make a mold for a toroid, all that's needed would be a pre-existing toroid.
Lead is also diamagnetic. ...meaning that most bismuth alloys would also work just as well. They may even melt faster for you.
Quote from: jadaro2600 on June 17, 2010, 12:00:48 AM
Looks interesting. Any other results to report? ...it might not be so difficult to make a mold for a toroid, all that's needed would be a pre-existing toroid.
Lead is also diamagnetic. ...meaning that most bismuth alloys would also work just as well. They may even melt faster for you.
It would be great if bismuth could be used for toroids.
Thinking that lead free solder should have alot of bismuth I tried a few coils........ so far I have not got any of my tries to oscillate at all
All of them have been made with bifilar twisted pair...... at least 16 turns....
The largest core was a 1 pound spool of solder.... the smallest was about 14 inches of solder.
tomorow I may try adding a few wraps of solder to a few working JTs just to see if anything happens
gary
What is the reason for this? If you want a material that magnetizes and de-magnetizes instantly faster than ferrite try Met-glass. Otherwise ferrite is the best choice here.
Bill
those lead-free solders are mostly tin.
@pirate
I was thinking about the NS coil , and some other devices that to me work in the same way , it got me thinking about the Kapa and the briefcase devise that show lamination of aluminum bismuth and copper , with a sync link to ground , i just can't find it now , but BUT the briefcase is a tesla coil , yes one connect to ground goes into a coil that one into a second one spark gap then cap to ground , just like Wordenclife i suspect the coil of being an electromagnet NS type , the A.B.C plates could be battery , and after some research Bismuth can be tweaked into a solid electrolyte , it also generates a huge magnetic field . Look into fuel cell for more detail but what if we could make a fuel cell without the fuel and replace it by the magnetic pulse making it a magnetic cell.
I hope someone get what i am saying on this , :D i bet not .
So i am looking into making a cell that work like the NS but with a solid electrolyte that is also the core ...
The best way to see how it could work is to make a JT ;D.
Mark
Quote from: Pirate88179 on June 21, 2010, 11:54:41 PM
What is the reason for this? If you want a material that magnetizes and de-magnetizes instantly faster than ferrite try Met-glass. Otherwise ferrite is the best choice here.
Bill
Bill
How can you be sure what is the best possible choice.?
I am sure that if OU is possible it will be found in the quirks that are ignored or explained away by conventional teaching.
The fact that bismuth is the most paramagnetic material sounds like a quirk to me.......... it also sounds like what it can do has not been studied much......to me that is another hint that there might be something to it.
I think I read that someone said that bismuth puts out a huge magnetic field.......if that is true...it might be a better primary wire than copper..
I am not assuming anything about it.......I just think it is an bismuth has some interesting quirks that I think are worth looking into.
gary
Quote from: jadaro2600 on June 22, 2010, 12:17:27 AM
those lead-free solders are mostly tin.
Jadaro
OK ........
I read on one of the links a few posts back that bismuth was used in solder..... I had some solder and felt more like experimenting than researching.
````````````````````````````````
Does anyone know of a common product that is mostly bismuth?
A link also said it was used for sinkers.....I checked walmart..... all of theirs seem to be lead.
gary
Quote from: Mk1 on June 22, 2010, 12:30:24 AM
@pirate
I was thinking about the NS coil , and some other devices that to me work in the same way , it got me thinking about the Kapa and the briefcase devise that show lamination of aluminum bismuth and copper , with a sync link to ground , i just can't find it now , but BUT the briefcase is a tesla coil , yes one connect to ground goes into a coil that one into a second one spark gap then cap to ground , just like Wordenclife i suspect the coil of being an electromagnet NS type , the A.B.C plates could be battery , and after some research Bismuth can be tweaked into a solid electrolyte , it also generates a huge magnetic field . Look into fuel cell for more detail but what if we could make a fuel cell without the fuel and replace it by the magnetic pulse making it a magnetic cell.
I hope someone get what i am saying on this , :D i bet not .
So i am looking into making a cell that work like the NS but with a solid electrolyte that is also the core ...
The best way to see how it could work is to make a JT ;D.
Mark
Mark
I think I saw a video about that briefcase device. I did not understand it.
If you are right ........and bismuth puts out a bigger magnetic pulse than other metals it could be very useful for many things......including JTs
In one of the links it showed a bar of bismuth being attracted to a magnet then repelled by it.... If a bismuth wire coil had a similar response ..........if it made a big pulse then collapsed or reversed......wouldn't that make a faster JT?
Wouldn't that be a faster rate of change..... closer to a disruptive discharge than a normal JT?
gary
Gary:
I was talking about a core material, not for primary winding.
Bismuth can be easily obtained from shotgun shells, just be careful unloading them if they are live. The pellets are bismuth instead of lead. I read this somewhere on the net.
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on June 22, 2010, 08:07:44 PM
Gary:
I was talking about a core material, not for primary winding.
Bismuth can be easily obtained from shotgun shells, just be careful unloading them if they are live. The pellets are bismuth instead of lead. I read this somewhere on the net.
Bill
Bill
Yes you clearly were talking about bismuth as a core material.
I was thinking along wider lines.
If others here want this to be only about bismuth cores I will keep to myself about other possibility's.
I am thinking if it is usable at all for cores......it is probably great for other things ....... I can't explain why I think this.... you could call it intuition.
gary
Edit
thanks for the information on shotgun shells...... a quick search shows that some of them but not all of them are a bismuth alloy
Nearly pure bismuth can be found on ebay for a little over $15 a pound I am not sure yet if this is a good price or not.
Given the low melting point of bismuth it should be very easy to make a crude core.
supplys
a little bit of good quality car wax as mold release
A short section of plastic pipe or something else to act as a ridgid support on the outside of the mold.
A tube of silicone rubber.
A toroid or toroid shaped material of the right size. ( a wax toroid would not need mold release )
A small metal bowl stainless would be ideal.
a metal measuring spoon might be good enough for a small core.
A blowtorch
pliers or visegrips for holding on to the metal bowl while heating and pouring.
`````````````````````````````
I would start by putting a nice even layer of silicone rubber in the short section of plastic tube as a " floor " for the toroid .
I would get this first layer as level as I could then let it sit a few days to cure.
The outer tube should be cut to be even with the toroid plus the floor .
I would then put a coating of car wax over the toroid ....... It might be a good idea to test a few samples first to make sure the that particular wax will be an effective mold release with for silicone rubber.
next I would fill the mold to be with silicone rubber........then place the waxed up toroid into the center of the whole works.
I would then use a straight edge of some kind to scrape off the excess silicone rubber so that the top of the toroid is right at the surface.
I would give it a week or so to cure.............then press on the underside to pop the toroid out.
A blowtorch and a small metal bowl of some kind should be all that is needed to melt the bismuth.
once the bismuth is melted pour it into the mold .......let it cool....then pop it out.
gary
For those that want to learn about bismuth, this video is done by a cool professor who has a series of videos. Here is the one on bismuth:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyIo-c7VmIM&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyIo-c7VmIM&feature=related)
It is radioactive and emits alpha particles, which I did not know. It is considered meta-stable however.
Bill
***EDIT*** I went back and watched the posted video again and it is weird. The old professor says it is the heaviest metal on the elements chart that is NOT radioactive and yet his lab assistant says they discovered 5 years ago that it is. It sounds like it is very, very low level and she was holding a crystal form of it in her hand and was not concerned so it must not be any big deal.
bismuth and stubblefield...
@wilby
You got it , just imagine a 3 layer sandwich bismuth (modified to be a solid electrolyte) so it could be aluminum /bismuth (electrolyte/reactor)/ carbon plate turned into a coil think tpu size coil , then put a coil around it(secondary) and a switching device on the coil to kick it.
Quote from: Mk1 on June 23, 2010, 07:34:54 PM
@wilby
You got it , just imagine a 3 layer sandwich bismuth (modified to be a solid electrolyte) so it could be aluminum /bismuth (electrolyte/reactor)/ carbon plate turned into a coil think tpu size coil , then put a coil around it(secondary) and a switching device on the coil to kick it.
MK
Do you have any links for this bismuth electrolite ?
Are you talking about using carbon like it is a plate in a battery?
If you can find a way to support it .......you should be able to pour melted bismuth around a carbon fiber core.....or maybe a spiral .
gary
@gary
http://www.google.ca/#hl=en&q=solid+electrolyte+bismuth&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&fp=6d37eea865434957
Take your pick there will be some chemistry involved in the process , but it is already used in fuel cells , they work on fuel , we could use magnetism to power this one like the NS .
Quote from: Mk1 on June 23, 2010, 10:12:45 PM
@gary
http://www.google.ca/#hl=en&q=solid+electrolyte+bismuth&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&fp=6d37eea865434957
Take your pick there will be some chemistry involved in the process , but it is already used in fuel cells , they work on fuel , we could use magnetism to power this one like the NS .
Thanks for the link.......I will see what I can get out of them
gary
RotoMetals sells bismuth.
I've acquired a pound of it (99.9% pure), It's very wacky looking stuff, ..there are veins in it - shard like. Very different from lead. I've tried to stay away from lead.
.. I'm going to make a mold of plaster out of a toroid and see how this works out, I'll probably try a smaller toroid, and duplicate the circuit, one with the bismuth and one without ( from the original toroid obviously ).
This may take a few days, I'm currently busy. I may need a better torch too.
Edit: I'll probably have some of the work done by Wednesday. I'm a bit pre-occupied lately. On top of that I'm having PC issues.
Ok, so far I've messed up three molds, I'm probably going to have to rethink this a bit.
On top of this, I've had some fiscal problems lately, And foresee being pre-occupied for a very longs time.
@jadaro
Hi , i would make a plaster (plaster of Paris) you don't need one that goes all the way around , i would put soap over a toroid first then make a mold ...
Good luck !
Word of advise, if using plaster for yor mold dont completely fill it as bisthmuth expands as it cools, you'll break it.
Try wood for your moulds.
Worked okay for me
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZF1FYaEdqc
Cheers
Sean.
Quote from: CLaNZeR on August 14, 2010, 11:31:19 AM
Try wood for your moulds.
Worked okay for me
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZF1FYaEdqc
Cheers
Sean.
you want to orient the diamagnetic field as its cooling.
my thoughts on this are to space the "moulds" out a bit,
and place a ceramic "magnetron" ring underneath.
-those big donut magnets from inside a microwave.
I have completed a few tests.
I made a mold using a 5 for $1 toroid as a plug.
I did not get the bismuth toroid to work as a JT
I was not surprised that it did not work........ my main interest was the possibility of a bismuth toroid adding an extra pulse or something to an impulse.
That did not happen...at least not using low power.
The picture is of a test that I did using 4 candy cane coils that I made.
All the coils and the primary are connected start of one bifilar wire to the end of the other.....
The primary is one piece of wire running through each coil ( 5 laps )
I tested then with 1 AA ( 1.34 V ) and 4 AAs (5.17 V )
Across the primary I got 6.14 V and 11.92 V
Across the coil with 3 toroids I got 2.87 V and 5.49 V
Across the coil with 4 toroids I got 3.94 V and 8.40 V
Across the coil with 5 toroids I got 5.30 V and 10.25 V
Across the coil with 3 normal toroids and one bismuth toroid I got 2.72 V and 5.26 V
My conclusion is the bismuth toroid slightly dampens the output of the coil ........ at least at low power.
gary
Edit
I do not have the equipment to accurately measure the power of each coil ....
It is possible that the bismuth toroid may be good for getting more power out of a circuit by converting some voltage into current.
I did a test with a red LED
using 1 AA and 3k base resistance the 4 toroid coil will just barely light the LED ........ with the same setup using the coil with the bismuth toroid the LED is at least twice as bright.
I could not see a difference at higher power settings.......
Even with the 4AAs I could not get any of my LED arrays to light with either coil.
Bismuth, orients itself 90 degrees away from a magnetic field. It's also known to be an anti-compass needle. It would point east to west.
If you look at diamagnetic levitation it really just projects the magnetic lines at 90 degree angles and lets them oppose or attract. Balance that effect out and the magnet doesn't move.
If you wanted to use a diamagnetic material to change the way a transformer worked, you would place in a gap. Grind a gap in a toroid, and then fill it with Bismuth. Then when the gap is just the right width, all the magnetic lines will jump out at that gap in all directions. So, if there were another core centered over the bismuth, it would suddenly magnetize and demagnetize. In effect, that would act like a gapped core, and you could make the gapped core a part of a parallel resonant circuit, and then take the power from the gap via the core wrapped around the gap. The core wrapped around the gap would be axially magnetized, then demagnetized. The real difference is that the bismuth filling the gap would enable that extra slug to be effective. Like a U core, ground down on one side to fit in a toroid right over the gap. With one side gapped and the other without any gap where you have the primary wound, the primary would always act like a standard inductor. So, the Q of the primary should almost be unaffected by the load on the secondary. Almost as if the secondary were disconnected from the magnetic circuit all together. But, that would take some time and the gap distances would be near 1 cm on one side and 0 on the other.
Imagine the magnetic lines shooting out in all directions, and then attracting from opposite poles. The bismuth would do that, and force the magnetic lines to connect in the air. The toroid should be shorter than the gap. It would look more like an old school flyback transformer when finished.
Quote from: elgersmad on March 26, 2011, 01:33:49 AM
Bismuth, orients itself 90 degrees away from a magnetic field. It's also known to be an anti-compass needle. It would point east to west.
If you look at diamagnetic levitation it really just projects the magnetic lines at 90 degree angles and lets them oppose or attract. Balance that effect out and the magnet doesn't move.
If you wanted to use a diamagnetic material to change the way a transformer worked, you would place in a gap. Grind a gap in a toroid, and then fill it with Bismuth. Then when the gap is just the right width, all the magnetic lines will jump out at that gap in all directions. So, if there were another core centered over the bismuth, it would suddenly magnetize and demagnetize. In effect, that would act like a gapped core, and you could make the gapped core a part of a parallel resonant circuit, and then take the power from the gap via the core wrapped around the gap. The core wrapped around the gap would be axially magnetized, then demagnetized. The real difference is that the bismuth filling the gap would enable that extra slug to be effective. Like a U core, ground down on one side to fit in a toroid right over the gap. With one side gapped and the other without any gap where you have the primary wound, the primary would always act like a standard inductor. So, the Q of the primary should almost be unaffected by the load on the secondary. Almost as if the secondary were disconnected from the magnetic circuit all together. But, that would take some time and the gap distances would be near 1 cm on one side and 0 on the other.
Imagine the magnetic lines shooting out in all directions, and then attracting from opposite poles. The bismuth would do that, and force the magnetic lines to connect in the air. The toroid should be shorter than the gap. It would look more like an old school flyback transformer when finished.
elgersmad
From what I have heard the toroids would not be very good for JTs after you cut a slit out of them.
What about a ring of bismuth around the outside of a toroid?
It would be easy to make a mold using a toroid with some layers of tape on the outside of it. after the mold is finished the tape could be removed and the toroid put back into the mold
If the toroid was heated in an oven or something before pouring the bismuth a fairly thin bismuth ring could be poured.
a couple posts back I told about my experment with 1 bismuth toroid in a candy cane coil.
With candy cane coils the transformer ratio is spread over all the toroids..... it is the ratio of the total number of wraps of each winding across all the toroids.
When I did the test I was hoping that the bismuth toroid would react in the way you described in your idea.........perhaps it is just to much bismuth.
gary
I would have tested the bismuth alone. Being that it is unique, should be tested for it's own qualities. Just a primary, measure inductance. A primary and a secondary, 1:2 turn ratio, hook it up to a signal generator. Measure the voltage input, output, check phase. Measure power in and power out. See if there's a difference. Start with the most basic inductor experiments and labs you did in first year electronics.
Then mix it 50/50 with powdered iron. Powdered iron is fairly cheap and you can buy it on the internet. You can't get powdered bismuth but, you can weigh it and melt it. In powder form, bismuth is flammable. That doesn't prevent you from mixing the iron powder with the molten bismuth. I would use a common solder flux to assist in the mixing process. I have made some complex magnetic assemblies. If you use this calculator to find the minimum thickness of a steel plate required to retain all of the magnetic lines or for maximum pull. Then you can multiply that by 3 and get three pieces of metal that same minimum thickness and make poles oppose. In odd numbers the magnets never loose magnetization. But, it will interfere with objects a long distance away. More than 20 feet. If you have an old TV or video monitor, not the flat screen but the CTR type, from 20 to 30 feet away 1 inch diameter neodymium magnets on a bolt with several washers of the right thickness will allow you to tweak the color, tilt the picture from a serious 10 feet away. At 2 feet you can almost push the whole picture right off of the monitor.
So, combining bismuth and powdered iron may not be a bad idea because, some and certain complex magnetic fields are literally stronger, projected farther and have more energy bound too them even though the surface magnetization may be only 2000 gauss. If that's the same when you are standing 3 feet away, the energy is not so heavily bound to the metal itself. So, complex magnetic fields help certain magnets like Alinco, which is Aluminum Nickel and Iron or Cobalt. But, that's not like Chrome Bismuth Ferrite, or Nickel Bismuth Iron. I don't see where any of these mixtures have been tested. No-body wants to because, bismuth has a very low melting point and can be very flammable. If you can find the chemical equation for bismuth when it burns, then you can look at finding a powdered form of spent or already burned bismuth powder and it will never be flammable. It might be an oxide.
Quote from: elgersmad on March 26, 2011, 11:05:42 PM
I would have tested the bismuth alone. Being that it is unique, should be tested for it's own qualities. Just a primary, measure inductance. A primary and a secondary, 1:2 turn ratio, hook it up to a signal generator. Measure the voltage input, output, check phase. Measure power in and power out. See if there's a difference. Start with the most basic inductor experiments and labs you did in first year electronics.
Then mix it 50/50 with powdered iron. Powdered iron is fairly cheap and you can buy it on the internet. You can't get powdered bismuth but, you can weigh it and melt it. In powder form, bismuth is flammable. That doesn't prevent you from mixing the iron powder with the molten bismuth. I would use a common solder flux to assist in the mixing process. I have made some complex magnetic assemblies. If you use this calculator to find the minimum thickness of a steel plate required to retain all of the magnetic lines or for maximum pull. Then you can multiply that by 3 and get three pieces of metal that same minimum thickness and make poles oppose. In odd numbers the magnets never loose magnetization. But, it will interfere with objects a long distance away. More than 20 feet. If you have an old TV or video monitor, not the flat screen but the CTR type, from 20 to 30 feet away 1 inch diameter neodymium magnets on a bolt with several washers of the right thickness will allow you to tweak the color, tilt the picture from a serious 10 feet away. At 2 feet you can almost push the whole picture right off of the monitor.
So, combining bismuth and powdered iron may not be a bad idea because, some and certain complex magnetic fields are literally stronger, projected farther and have more energy bound too them even though the surface magnetization may be only 2000 gauss. If that's the same when you are standing 3 feet away, the energy is not so heavily bound to the metal itself. So, complex magnetic fields help certain magnets like Alinco, which is Aluminum Nickel and Iron or Cobalt. But, that's not like Chrome Bismuth Ferrite, or Nickel Bismuth Iron. I don't see where any of these mixtures have been tested. No-body wants to because, bismuth has a very low melting point and can be very flammable. If you can find the chemical equation for bismuth when it burns, then you can look at finding a powdered form of spent or already burned bismuth powder and it will never be flammable. It might be an oxide.
elgersmad
The first thing I tried after making some bismuth toroids is making JTs with them ....... I tried several variations mostly with quite a few windings.....
I did not try mixing black iron oxide and bismuth because I did not get anything out of bismuth that I thought was worth exploring more.
My black iron/epoxy did not prove useful either....... for a JT at least.
I am pretty sure it could be made to work but I was looking for something that could be used with a reasonable number of primary turns.......
As far as testing it properly......no signal generator , no scope, no training.
I just experiment.
:)
gary
There are free books online in the PDF format that cover electronics. I downloaded several myself and I went to college and took electronics. Even at this point I still review, brush up and try to break off the rust, any time I notice it. Most of it is just plain algebra, and 99% of time you'd be relying on a calculator which makes it so easy that it's practically cheating compared to taking algebra. Memorizing equations is more important. MOSFETs and Transistors are on the top of the list if you're into power applications.
Without formal training, it's really hard to think of anyone actually inventing an over unity device. At this point, I'm thinking that if you gave the toroid to some-one TV repair shop and told them what it was made of, you might learn allot more about what was really different about it, than trying to build an over unity circuit when most attempts are failures to begin with.
Another suggestion, is to go to any place that they repair electronic equipment TV repair shop, Refrigerator Repair, Music Instrument Sales and Repair places. Buy the repair coffee, or ask for an interview and just make friends and explain your interest in Over Unity. Maybe, he can help you and you can help him and there can be a kind of sorcerer apprentice relationship there.
Debugging and explaining why these devices don't work is just as important as finding the needles in the haystacks and those few that may or might. If you ask an engineer, a parallel resonant tank circuit shows more promise. But, in detail and in nearly every situation, the energy is just stored between the inductor and the capacitor at resonance. I did find a way around that. You start in series resonance with a plasma bulb where it would replace a piece of wire to make a parallel resonant circuit. If the resonant frequency is above 100KHz, a point at which plasmas never cool off and if it were florescent would actually stay on without blinking 120 times a second, the plasma can get hot enough to conduct as well as a piece of copper wire. So, the florescent bulb would then change modes and all of the energy in parallel tank circuit would flow through the bulb. After that it's just Q, and Q tends to be higher at higher frequencies in regard to coils. So, a doorknob capacitor and water pipe coil would produce more light energy, and up to 1000 times more than energy in. 100 milliwatts = 100 Watts of light.
I know that a YouTube web show like Duck Busters, the over unity debuggers, isn't really Mythbusters. But, when you consider how many quacks are trying sell garbage for gold, Duck Busters sounds allot better.
Quote from: elgersmad on March 28, 2011, 09:15:30 PM
There are free books online in the PDF format that cover electronics. I downloaded several myself and I went to college and took electronics. Even at this point I still review, brush up and try to break off the rust, any time I notice it. Most of it is just plain algebra, and 99% of time you'd be relying on a calculator which makes it so easy that it's practically cheating compared to taking algebra. Memorizing equations is more important. MOSFETs and Transistors are on the top of the list if you're into power applications.
Without formal training, it's really hard to think of anyone actually inventing an over unity device. At this point, I'm thinking that if you gave the toroid to some-one TV repair shop and told them what it was made of, you might learn allot more about what was really different about it, than trying to build an over unity circuit when most attempts are failures to begin with.
Another suggestion, is to go to any place that they repair electronic equipment TV repair shop, Refrigerator Repair, Music Instrument Sales and Repair places. Buy the repair coffee, or ask for an interview and just make friends and explain your interest in Over Unity. Maybe, he can help you and you can help him and there can be a kind of sorcerer apprentice relationship there.
Debugging and explaining why these devices don't work is just as important as finding the needles in the haystacks and those few that may or might. If you ask an engineer, a parallel resonant tank circuit shows more promise. But, in detail and in nearly every situation, the energy is just stored between the inductor and the capacitor at resonance. I did find a way around that. You start in series resonance with a plasma bulb where it would replace a piece of wire to make a parallel resonant circuit. If the resonant frequency is above 100KHz, a point at which plasmas never cool off and if it were florescent would actually stay on without blinking 120 times a second, the plasma can get hot enough to conduct as well as a piece of copper wire. So, the florescent bulb would then change modes and all of the energy in parallel tank circuit would flow through the bulb. After that it's just Q, and Q tends to be higher at higher frequencies in regard to coils. So, a doorknob capacitor and water pipe coil would produce more light energy, and up to 1000 times more than energy in. 100 milliwatts = 100 Watts of light.
I know that a YouTube web show like Duck Busters, the over unity debuggers, isn't really Mythbusters. But, when you consider how many quacks are trying sell garbage for gold, Duck Busters sounds allot better.
elgersmad
Thanks for your opinions.
I do not seek help from so called professionals because I am sure that what is taught in our schools is a tweaked version of the truth.
It my be 99% accurate but it is intentionally wrong in some areas.
Because of these intentional errors anyone that uses conventional training to seek OU is doomed to failure..... That is why the debunkers demand to have an OU circuit explained according to conventional rules..... conventional rules do not allow OU......if you fall for this trick they win every time........because all they have to do is to win one argument .......and you loose your conviction....... often the winning argument is silly or even unrelated to what is really going on.
All magnet motors demagnetize their magnets........ this is a common wives tale here.
Who is qualified to make such a rule?
Did they try ALL the ways a magnet motor can be built before coming up with such a jem of wisdom?
I don't think so.
The skeptics do not have to prove their argument.......they just toss shit out there until some of it sticks.....then they got a new rule.
I look at the quirks that are avoided by conventional wisdom.
One example is the spike created when a magnetic field collapses.
The JT is all about these spikes...... The so called educated people have known about them for at least several hundred years......what do they know about them?
They teach very little about how to use them ......they teach MUCH about how to avoid them .
The fact that something so common is so unstudied......it makes me want to find out more........so I experiment..
Do you have any more information about this 100 X circuit?
A link or something?
By water pipe coil do you mean a coil using a water pipe as the core?
gary
@ Gary:
I totally agree with you. All we ever heard was that the JT circuits are well known and have been around for years....great. Then why are they not using this to light things brighter and cheaper like we are? I use them daily in my home and I have yet to see a commercial circuit that can do what our home made designs can do. I too find this very curious indeed.
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on March 28, 2011, 11:57:51 PM
@ Gary:
I totally agree with you. All we ever heard was that the JT circuits are well known and have been around for years....great. Then why are they not using this to light things brighter and cheaper like we are? I use them daily in my home and I have yet to see a commercial circuit that can do what our home made designs can do. I too find this very curious indeed.
Bill
Bill
The education system was not randomly changed.....it is a few very specific things.........well thought out and time tested..
I am sure that there are things built into the business world that are designed to prevent OU devices from going public.
I remember a story of John Bedini getting a visit from some thugs in business suits .......perhaps visits like this are more common than we think .
The energy industry also probably buys up any ideas that they see as threatening their profit....remember the Meyer water car showing up for sale a while back? If it had been bought by someone to develop the technology we should have heard of something by now.
gary
I think it's more important to think like you do, then remember that while you go to College. There is still so much to learn there that you can't get faster or better than if you go there. They can't lie too much, or your computer wouldn't work. I did figure out some of the points where they do lie. They will never ever tell you everything about Inductors and Transformers. Coils and inductors by themselves, represent something so complex it should be a field isolated in Electronics, like Radar, MRI repair tech, programmer, but isolated because of actual detail. Researching just that one subject, is the toughest. It's scattered over nearly 200 years. The details run through ancient articles in Scientific American, the works of Tesla, and the works of Tesla point to books published and research done in his time. I have found that old books, really old books on the subject, some reprints on solenoids, dynamo design, don't work with your standard duracell batteries. They'll be triggered to explode or overheat and spew whatever that is on the inside. It burns your skin like hot coals and really fast. But, gaining access, knowing which where and what used book stores to look into, and even searching those isn't easy. You can't get vacuum tubes. I have book on Vacuum Tube Design, and the publisher has no record of it, nor having published it. They did find the individual who holds the copyright. Yet, their gold inlay is still there and stamped plainly on the spine of the book. So, WWI and before the atomic bomb was invented, anywhere in there, those college level electronics books and issues concerning the manufacture of inductors, transformers, electric motors and dynamos, as well as generators are so different and contain many details the others and present issues leave out. We use MKS values Meter Kilogram Second, then there is CGS, Centimeter Gram Second. Then there's an English Standard that include ergs as a measurement of power like a horsepower but a much much smaller unit of measure. The facts that you learn, and detail out can be used with any set of those equations, it's just knowing which one to use yourself from start to finish on a given project. But, the delivery of information includes details not mentioned nor given equation in the more common standard units such as MKS and CGS.
When you wind a coil, they say an air core coil cannot be saturated. It's fairly true. Then they commonly say, that once a magnetic core is saturated, it can't be magnetized any farther. That's not true. If you increase the current one ampere after saturation has been achieved, the magnetic field will intensify the same amount as an air core of the same number of turns of wire + the number of magnetic lines presented by the saturated core. So, if you wind a coil around a permanent magnet that has north at one end and south at the other, applying power will make it stronger. But, only for as long as the power is on. They don't tell you that. Most permanent magnets you buy, did have a much stronger magnetic field when they were first magnetized. But, people get angry when they loose some of their magnetization. So, industry maintains a common practice of reducing the strength of the permanent magnets to the point that they won't really loose any more magnetization. It's called aging, tempering, curing, or ruggedizing. That way, if you drop the magnet, it doesn't suddenly get weaker. Another method is heat curing. It actually weakens the magnetic fields produced by the permanent magnets.
So, they don't teach everything. They just teach common practice and that is allot details and those details are important.
Now, I kept searching for bismuth iron and found an article you might like read. I've written about using bismuth for several years and never found anyone to do anything, well I didn't think that I did. I'm not so interested in messing with the stuff or starting a foundry. I have done some work with ceramics and even made my own custom glow paint that can be fired in a kiln.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/05/090522154504.htm
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/05/090522154504.htm
This article really says something too me. That bismuth iron composites would make super awesome magnetic amplifier and saturable core materials. If the objective were to suddenly turn on or off an AC power source, the bismuth is squaring the saturation curve via an eddy current.
Well, if you wanted to make 97% iron and 3% bismuth, you'd need to electroplate a slug 30% bismuth and 70% iron before the priming alloy slug could work in a batch. The melting point would have to be lowered and mixing enabled. It may not be possible or practical except by a rotating electroplating method. If the bismuth is going to vaporize or cannot be contained at between 30% maybe adding it to nickel instead could by that alloy time but, it may just foam right out the crucible.
If you spin the positive anode, and have two negative electrodes, one nickel iron and the other bismuth. The ratio of current flow if 70% is through the nickel iron and 30% is through the bismuth, the anode will be coated with the alloy. It's just a matter of keeping the anode spinning. If anything, you need to be certain that your ionic solution doesn't produce an oxide on the anode of any of the three metals that are going into it. So, it would be good for electroplating nickel, iron, and bismuth.
Quote from: resonanceman on March 29, 2011, 12:31:46 AM
Bill
The education system was not randomly changed.....it is a few very specific things.........well thought out and time tested..
I am sure that there are things built into the business world that are designed to prevent OU devices from going public.
I remember a story of John Bedini getting a visit from some thugs in business suits .......perhaps visits like this are more common than we think .
The energy industry also probably buys up any ideas that they see as threatening their profit....remember the Meyer water car showing up for sale a while back? If it had been bought by someone to develop the technology we should have heard of something by now.
gary
That is ironic. Before there were any laws against hacking 1990s. I was a hacker. I got together with a group of individuals online and the code broke into a Military Training Base's computer network. Think about the Pentagon, any idiot would look there. That's so obvious that they'll catch most beginners. But, if you think about the military most people serve for a few years or until retirement, and whoever's moving up in rank, still has to receive orders and know the details of the mission summary for the position they're training for. So, most of those secrets should be where somebody else would train for the position.
The Patent Office, and everything you do to keep a secret to retain rights to your royalties, works for them. If anything goes in there that would retain their interest, they can ditch you. They have a few Enemy of the State kind of modes. If you were ever a victim, you'd know. They'd get your college credits, if you attended, they'd get your degree. If you work too hard, they might send a mental health professional, who's just a ruse. Out of all of the people that they've jacked, only one has ever surfaced and he invented the shoulder launched guided missile. He's the only guy, that had enough money to attempt to fight back, and the only guy, who ever received any publicity trying to. These days, when you watch the History Channel, and Discovery, they really position themselves where they admit to having killed him. But, think about this for a minute. You or I, obey the law, and then the government won't pay your for your work. They want to mass produce your invention, and get rid of any point of paying royalties too you. Any other inventor of a toy, tool, or whatever has that right, their patent rights. Now, if you lived in a country that didn't obey or uphold it's own laws, and took or stole your money by refusing to pay you, do you think that you would stick around for very long? So, he went to work for somebody else to build a gun, a really big gun. But, he'd always worked on those kinds of devices. He worked designing a space gun to launch small satellites into space. They don't really display the whole truth, nor how America, was his motive to leave the country. The gun he was working on, wouldn't reach America. In some sense, I feel and believe that he was more certain that he'd be paid by this foreign country, where he just got ripped off and lost in a lengthy court battle in America. With them pretending that they don't blacklist anyone, I'm fairly sure he didn't and couldn't get work in America. Well, you know who's biting at his heals. Now, they don't deny having killed him but, they don't admit to cheating him, nor driving him off. Well, hell yea. I read the mission statements, but there's the proof. It just wasn't an over unity device.
A working Over Unity device would make you a Threat to National Security, if and only if, it out performs nuclear power. Anything like that threatens the nuclear stockpile because, as soon as the voting public sees it, they'll believe it, and protest, or petition the government to shut down the nuclear reactors. At that point, they don't have any means of producing enriched uranium to build bombs with. Anything in storage, would have to be refined a second time because of the half life of radioactive elements. At the point the reactors shut down, that's where the cold war philosophy hasn't died. The dates on this junk is weird too. It really shows that the peak of the ice-burg starts where the US scientists who invented the first nuke, handed off the how tos over to Russia. So, the whole initiative starts there and then with that and other possible situations that could or would be a threat to the production and maintenance of nuclear warheads. Nuclear power was just a cover for bomb production that really worked out.
They can influence your employers by posing as investigators, and manipulate your work schedule. They can threaten your relatives in ways you wouldn't think could turn them against you. Really weird shit. They are the men in black too. Basically, it's PSYOP that handles it. They'll come from one base Army to visit a Navy base where a UFO was spotted. They are always looking for those to keep you from finding out about how those super efficient star drives work. If one of those crash, they don't want anyone to know, and yea' they all of the pieces. Anybody figures out how to put that thing back together, fix or repair it, and it really would have to have some incredible power system. It's the same logic that drives that. They want to know how it works. They may not use it but, they really do want every bit of how to build their own. Most of the people only know what they are suppose to be doing and are not train or taught what somebody else is. Special forces receives one kind of training, repair techs several specific types, and the guy that's suppose to keep his mouth shut, was trained too. Just like the hypercritical critics, some number of them are military. Retroactive, means that even though they are retired, they could have an underlying mission. Like getting pissed off, and acting like I don't know what I'm talking about. Pissing about my english and how it was spelled out. Working to prove I'm stupid, when he or she cannot find an experiment of that sort to prove anything has or has not be looked into. But, you can't know until you look right? If nobody's tried it, then why not if it is a good hypothesis? The greatest of all inventors has plenty of failed inventions. There's a book published on the subject, "Failed Inventions of Great Inventors" They wouldn't be great if trial and error were not a part of the process. Looking around to see what others have done, to try that which no one else has yet to have tried.
Quote from: elgersmad on March 29, 2011, 01:11:48 AM
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/05/090522154504.htm
This article really says something too me. That bismuth iron composites would make super awesome magnetic amplifier and saturable core materials. If the objective were to suddenly turn on or off an AC power source, the bismuth is squaring the saturation curve via an eddy current.
Well, if you wanted to make 97% iron and 3% bismuth, you'd need to electroplate a slug 30% bismuth and 70% iron before the priming alloy slug could work in a batch. The melting point would have to be lowered and mixing enabled. It may not be possible or practical except by a rotating electroplating method. If the bismuth is going to vaporize or cannot be contained at between 30% maybe adding it to nickel instead could by that alloy time but, it may just foam right out the crucible.
If you spin the positive anode, and have two negative electrodes, one nickel iron and the other bismuth. The ratio of current flow if 70% is through the nickel iron and 30% is through the bismuth, the anode will be coated with the alloy. It's just a matter of keeping the anode spinning. If anything, you need to be certain that your ionic solution doesn't produce an oxide on the anode of any of the three metals that are going into it. So, it would be good for electroplating nickel, iron, and bismuth.
elgersmad
Thanks for the links
I don't have alot of time right now but I will check them out soon
I see you have been doing serious thinking about how the system really works. All the laws are on the side of the people with the big money......no matter how corrupt they are.
I like your electroplating idea.
gary
Quote from: resonanceman on April 01, 2011, 11:18:06 PM
elgersmad
Thanks for the links
I don't have alot of time right now but I will check them out soon
I see you have been doing serious thinking about how the system really works. All the laws are on the side of the people with the big money......no matter how corrupt they are.
I like your electroplating idea.
gary
I re-read what I wrote, and my thoughts are sometimes broken up by the time that they are typed. I apologize for that. I'm glad that you could follow it. At one time, I made an alloy in the 80s before having elemental mercury was any issue and it was in all kinds of switches, and the stuff was so slippery, you couldn't really hang on too it. It made oil and soap seem like nothing. It was mercury copper. I won't give away the magical chemical that I used to make this alloy because, mercury is some really nasty stuff. I don't even know if I can have kids. I do know that it's never happened. But, this much is for certain. There is a reference book, and you might be able to gain access too it at a library. It's an electroplating reference and it covers all kinds of metals from zinc to you name it. Believe me, chrome is not everything in electroplating.
Modern Electroplating (http://books.google.com/books?id=j3OSKTCuO00C&printsec=frontcover&dq=electroplating+reference&hl=en&ei=d7-WTdeXG4nliALN3KGdCQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CFMQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=electroplating%20reference&f=false)
It's a reference, and all you are looking for is an acid, chloride, or alkaloid solution that won't turn any one of the metals in your alloy into an oxide. It will produce hydrogen and oxygen, and almost no matter what you do. So, it is important to keep the anode spinning when you are making custom alloys. Usually, it includes a mole conversion to how many electrons are required for a given reaction, to get one metal to bond to another. For 50/50 If the chemical equation is 3 moles, that's just three amperes. If the other metal requires only 2 moles , then that would only require 2 amperes. So, one cathode/negative connection is at 2 amperes, and the other is at 3 amperes, and the anode would take up 5 amperes. So, you need the chemical equation. Electrolysis is probably the easiest reference to understand the equation. Because, the 2 moles is written mole
-2 which looks weird because, it's written like a power of ten. There's a reason and it's due to the mole being a reference to Faraday's Charge Constant which is different than joule, watt, ampere or volt. Technically, it's an ampere, and you can multiply to get that 50/50 ratio. So, 10 times the amperage does the job ten times faster 20 amperes and 30 amperes.
I really liked your response.
But, don't eliminate the potential of oxides doing something. Zinc Oxide is piezoelectric. Copper Oxide isn't very conductive, and when you find a metal that doesn't conduct or develops a very high resistance or is semiconductive, there is no way to predict what would happen. You could drop it, and wind up getting shocked. Here's the funny part, you could probably make it with table salt, water and two metals, one being zinc. Titanium oxide is resistive and so is cobalt oxide. Silver oxide is highly conductive, so it's out. Amazing what you might be able to do with with an old watch band and a penny with a tablespoon of salt in quart jar, isn't it?
Voltage won't make sense. Sometimes you'll be trying to charge a battery that just wants to run down and you'll be fighting what they call autoplating. Amperes are all that matter and the mole equations.
although bismuth ferrite is an insulating material, running through its crystals are ultrathin (two-dimensional) sheets called "domain walls" that conduct electricity at room temperature.
This reminds me of electrinium .....The theory is if you an make the right alloy with positive and negative charges on the ends of the molecule..... then keep those molecules in orderly lines as you cool the alloy the end result will be like a magnet only creating an electric charge rather than a magnetic charge.
My best guess is to melt it then cool it under a strong magnetic field and running high voltage through it.....the voltage would probably have to taper off to allow it to cool.
According to the theory of electrinium the right element for the alloy would be something that could be used to make a bismuth battery.
Of course.........any one with even half an education knows that such a thing is not possible
:)
gary
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=5479.0;wap2
Quote from: resonanceman on April 02, 2011, 11:50:46 PM
although bismuth ferrite is an insulating material, running through its crystals are ultrathin (two-dimensional) sheets called "domain walls" that conduct electricity at room temperature.
This reminds me of electrinium .....The theory is if you an make the right alloy with positive and negative charges on the ends of the molecule..... then keep those molecules in orderly lines as you cool the alloy the end result will be like a magnet only creating an electric charge rather than a magnetic charge.
My best guess is to melt it then cool it under a strong magnetic field and running high voltage through it.....the voltage would probably have to taper off to allow it to cool.
According to the theory of electrinium the right element for the alloy would be something that could be used to make a bismuth battery.
Of course.........any one with even half an education knows that such a thing is not possible
:)
gary
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=5479.0;wap2
Sometimes, something may sound half cocked or crazy, and not be wrong, just impossible or improbable. PN junctions make great diode, and if the area is large enough and it's photosensitive, it makes a great solar cell. There are all metal PN junctions, for example, thermocouples. Hi-Z Technology (http://www.hi-z.com/), sell thermoelectric cells that convert heat into electricity. Water is a strong dipole, but it's useless except for use in low voltage capacitors. It retains a very high charge and has a very high dielectric constant. As a result, water is very good at storing electrons. But, it has a very low breakdown voltage and that makes it not so good. If you have a van degraff a piece of wire and a bottle of deionized distilled water, it can do some crazy stuff in the dark. If you remove the wire from the water before the van degraff is turned off, picking up the bottle of water can be stupid and you can get one hell of shock. Not only that, it can shock you more than once.
If you could produce millions of layers or more of PN junctions, I've always been curious due to breakdown voltages, what happens if you have enough junctions to start electrons just following the electric field lines. That like saying PN too many times in the same substrate should breakdown. 5 million volts DC is the breakdown voltage of space itself. Electrons can jump almost any distance after you reach that voltage. There's a point where two infinite planes in space cannot retain a charge, and no matter what an electron will jump the gap. Literally, that's an unknown. But, for a small distance, or with two spheres 300,000 volts to meter squared and you'll see a corona discharge. Sharp points reach that point quicker than rounded or blunt object and spheres fair the best. So, when you buy van degraff and it's rated to produce up to 75KV, the sphere is literally only little over 8 inches in diameter, and the sphere regulates the voltage. Increase the current flow, and it will just glow brighter and never get past that voltage. It's the curve of the sphere that decides the voltage. When it's all DC that is the way it is. AC is a different creature.
So, you could look at electronegativity for the atom, which is a ratio of neutrons protons and electrons against mass. If you find a strong positive, you could literally rotate it slowly enough, and use a low current to in effect use some math to count how many atoms deep a layer would be. Then use a clock motor that turns at 1 RPM. Most of the electronics equations are written in terms of volts, amperes and watts. The number of electrons moving tells you how many atoms when from the electrode to the anode. So, you can literally calculate when you should get to that voltage. But, you might need Copper foil, ferric chloride PC board etchant to get the first two layers separated. Then set your Voltmeter to diode check and measure the barrier voltage. Any model paint that will stick, even a piece of tape will prevent the etchant from eating the metal under the tape. Paint or a resist marker is better because the solvents that completely remove them come with them or are easy to get and don't require allot of friction to remove. Measure the voltage of the barrier. Lower the current and see what the minimum number of atoms required literally add to be. Then set your power supply dials to make an all metal battery. You'll need to etch through all of the layers in order to keep them from touching. Cutting will cut across them and push layers together and short them out. Etching won't. Etch the cylinder in half So, paint the whole thing except a thin line that will cut in half. Then sink it in ferric chloride and it will cut it in half. It may take an hour or two but it will cut through it. You can cut through a penny that way. Right when the thing approaches being two pieces, it might start an avalanche of electrons. That would take 4,999,993 layers at 0.7 volts within a few inches of thickness. You would always place your negative with the positive metal and the negative metal on opposite sides of the rotating drum and very close to the rotating drum. It would take 9.5 years for that many layers at that RPM. Before it will happen in an autonomous fashion, you will need to defeat the breakdown voltage of space. That is around 5 million volts. 3 million is the lowest that those kinds of effects have been seen. Printing them on a chip is much different than layers. You couldn't really hope for much without stimulation from a chip like that even if were printed on a tube.
In a vacuum chamber you could in theory move things faster if you have the cylinder quadranted. You have two vacuum pumps sucking any impurities away, and two sources of ions. Still, it would require some measurable current but vacuum deposition could do it faster. Then the RPM could be in the hundreds or thousands. Your anode would have to handle allot of current though. Since, it is spiralled on, I don't believe that you'll have to defeat the entire barrier voltage that you'll have once cut in half. But, you will have to defeat some measurable barrier voltage and be prepared to produce a power supply to defeat that and produce some current.
Here's the irony of all of that. When you see the distance an arc jumps, that's the space you're trying to produce a voltage that's equal or greater than. 20 volts per millimeter. So, the more layers, the better. The larger the area, the higher the current. The better the two conducting metals, the better the results. More often than not, all you get is a potential and no avalanche. So, it's more than 20 volts to the millimeter that you'd be really looking for. Several hundred layers should be enough to make determination. But, if you're bent on it, a thousand or more. You just need to be certain that you have a real layer of one metal, then the next. If you go by eye that color related. There's a thin an complete layer of aluminum or gold on every liquid crystal television, and you're looking through the gold or aluminum. So, a layer can be so thin, you can see right through it.
I would say that Bismuth is better for a inductive bottle or container then anything else. It reflects the inductive charges back to the center if used in a sphere. It doesn't work the same way as iron does. It is not a channel for magnetic currents. It is an anti channel of such.
As for the magnet I think we have always seen an electric event happening and not a magnetic event as is being taught. We know today from our experiments that the potential of two bodies when connected with a conductor gives a current in a certain direction based on the two bodies potential level via the now connected conductor. This is what I think is going on in a magnet. Structures are being formed inside the material that cause one way potential diodes. This is accomplished by the shape that is formed in the material as it phase changes while being stimulated by an external field.
Take a look at this video of ferro fluids and you might get an idea of the structures and what they look like.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBanQOFyQj4
These structures are what causes the one way diode like action and work to pull lines of force into an array around the structure. The problem with the fluid part is that it has no phase change and quickly disorganizes otherwise it would create a magnet.