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Discussion board help and admin topics => Half Baked Ideas => Topic started by: rukiddingme on August 06, 2010, 08:32:02 PM

Title: Help with Low Carbon Iron
Post by: rukiddingme on August 06, 2010, 08:32:02 PM
Hi all,

I have spent the last few days trying to find a bar of low carbon iron. Sigh, I have been unable to find it.

Wikipedia says that original wrought iron had less than .01% carbon content, but everything I see has about 3%.

Has anyone come across a metal supplier that stocks low carbon iron of the .01% type in the USA?

I need at least a 18" bar with about a 1/2" diameter.

Don't give up!

Thanks in Advance.
Title: Re: Help with Low Carbon Iron
Post by: cletushowell on August 06, 2010, 08:49:09 PM
well I dont know what your trying to build but It sounds like the black frequency of carbon is messing you up
so you can neutralize the carbon by adding oxygen or you can understand the color of black is created by
equalizing the frequency so remove part of the frequency that is the carbon and then you still have carbon but not the frequency so its probly not going to effect your product maybee this helps. probly to complicated
Title: Re: Help with Low Carbon Iron
Post by: CompuTutor on August 06, 2010, 09:16:16 PM
Wil a 1/4% do ?

http://www.matweb.com/search/datasheettext.aspx?matguid=383ea2d3274d40f2b2e7f36c94252cf1

Which continent are you currently on please?

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=122017&page=18
Title: Re: Help with Low Carbon Iron
Post by: tak22 on August 06, 2010, 09:59:49 PM
Maybe you just want a good core material? Alloys can be very good, for example:

http://www.edfagan.com/2006/product-literature/soft-magnetic-alloys/?phpMyAdmin=-V48c5M5z-yvn8fbsrAZ1CvteG0 (http://www.edfagan.com/2006/product-literature/soft-magnetic-alloys/?phpMyAdmin=-V48c5M5z-yvn8fbsrAZ1CvteG0)

Here's a listing of low carbon steels:

http://www.efunda.com/materials/alloys/carbon_steels/low_carbon.cfm (http://www.efunda.com/materials/alloys/carbon_steels/low_carbon.cfm)

tak
Title: Re: Help with Low Carbon Iron
Post by: rukiddingme on August 06, 2010, 10:11:12 PM
@ CompuTutor

Dura-Bar was one of the first places I looked. I'm not sure where you found .25% carbon for this. Here's the spec sheet for it:

http://www.dura-bar.com/products/65-45-12b.cfm

As you see, it lists 3.5-3.9% for carbon.

The page you linked to says:

"The mechanical properties of 65-45-12 will be similar to low carbon steels that contain up to 0.25% carbon including 1010, 1018, 11L17, 12L14 and 1020."

I think "mechanical properties" and "similar" are not really the carbon content of the material.

Here's the quote from wikipedia:

"Wrought iron is an iron alloy with a very low carbon content, in comparison to steel, and has fibrous inclusions, known as slag. This is what gives it a "grain" resembling wood, which is visible when it is etched or bent to the point of failure. Wrought iron is tough, malleable, ductile and easily welded. Historically, it was known as "commercially pure iron",[1][2]  however it no longer qualifies because current standards for commercially pure iron require a carbon content of less than 0.008 wt%.[3][4]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrought_iron

I'm sure you see my confusion about finding real iron.

The other URL you posted seems to say there isn't much difference between low carbon steel and iron, but it is also true that iron would be better.

Thanks
Title: Re: Help with Low Carbon Iron
Post by: CompuTutor on August 06, 2010, 10:30:01 PM
I agree, wrought iron articles seem to lean
towrds lean carbon content mostly:

http://www.buzzle.com/articles/brief-history-wrought-iron.html

"Mild steel has the lowest carbon content of between
.05% and .26% making it quite easy to work with."

I'm bored, I'll poke around a while longer.


Title: Re: Help with Low Carbon Iron
Post by: rukiddingme on August 06, 2010, 10:35:39 PM
@ tak22

Yes, these are getting closer. You are right, I don't really need pure iron, I need the best core material to do what I want to do.

I notice with these materials the higher the permeability, the lower the coercive force.

Are you familiar with any material that has both high permeability and high coercive Force?

I'll give these guys a call next week and see what's up.

^5

Title: Re: Help with Low Carbon Iron
Post by: rukiddingme on August 06, 2010, 10:40:08 PM

@ CompuTutor

I now realize that the material I'm looking for may not be iron. What I need is a material that is high permeability and high coercive Force. This may or may not be iron. Any help rocks. I'm googling like crazy. Thanks.
Title: Re: Help with Low Carbon Iron
Post by: CompuTutor on August 06, 2010, 10:42:28 PM
Well, OK, but to close on the carbon point.

It seems the matrix of the metal itself
holds just as many clues too.

Here are people that mix metal for a living,
they stumbled into a questionable area too.

http://www.foundrymag.com/feature/feature/49752/tracking_gray_iron_machinability_part_1

You never told us why this requirement,
can you share what you need this for?

I mean, even this extended search term
yields About 5,260 results as example:

Low.Carbon High.Permeability High.Coercive.Force

http://www.google.com/webhp?hl=en&newwindow=1&num=100&lr=lang_en&safe=off&q=#num=100&hl=en&newwindow=1&safe=off&q=Low.Carbon+High.Permeability+High.Coercive.Force
Title: Re: Help with Low Carbon Iron
Post by: rukiddingme on August 06, 2010, 10:57:30 PM
@ CompuTutor

That is a curious article about the hardness of their metals. Very interesting. I found it a bit frustrating that they chart didn't make sense until I realized that the headings for the columns were the same color as the background. Just "control A" and you can see the headings :-)
Title: Re: Help with Low Carbon Iron
Post by: rukiddingme on August 07, 2010, 12:46:11 AM
@ CompuTutor

I want to make an electromagnet for a pulse motor that has high permeability and high coercive Force.

More specifically, I want to make an electromagnet with a core that saturates quickly and strongly; and also the same core retain the applied magnetic field as long as possible.
Title: Re: Help with Low Carbon Iron
Post by: IotaYodi on August 07, 2010, 10:20:59 AM
QuoteMore specifically, I want to make an electromagnet with a core that saturates quickly and strongly; and also the same core retain the applied magnetic field as long as possible.
That would be one hell of an alloy. What might work is having 2 rods that differ in composition and both cut in half lengthwise then sandwiched together. Im seeing one as high silcone at 3 to 5%,with high iron content and low carbon and the other a higher carbon content no silicone rod to retain the field for longer. I would think the timing of the 2 would be critical.
Im curious as to why you want the field to last.
Title: Re: Help with Low Carbon Iron
Post by: CompuTutor on August 07, 2010, 03:05:53 PM
Iota, along the lines of a core of one material,
with an outer lining of a second would be better.

The core serves one purpose,
the "Skin" the other quality needed.

That is, as long as the windings are
the length of the rod only,
and don't extended past them.

Then a "washer" type shape that covers
all the coil winding's depth from the core out
and only the outer material of the duo rod,
leaving the alternate center material free
to flux on It's own seperately.

The air core effect of coil/center,
and the classic coupled coil/outer.



In the meantime,
I mean until the industry see's use
for such a custom core design.

You'll have to settle for a rod
hammered into a tube
and "Washers" as bobbin ends.

Thank god for 5-minute epoxy...

Title: Re: Help with Low Carbon Iron
Post by: CompuTutor on August 07, 2010, 03:10:13 PM
(Accidental double post, OU has no delete post option...)
Title: Re: Help with Low Carbon Iron
Post by: Paul-R on August 07, 2010, 06:03:31 PM
Welding rods may well do the job. Also, fencing posts can be
made of iron. I think their rusting performance is better.

(Someone suggested steel. Steel is made by adding carbon
to iron. It won't do).
Title: Re: Help with Low Carbon Iron
Post by: IotaYodi on August 07, 2010, 09:38:37 PM
QuoteAlso, fencing posts can be
made of iron.
Never seen one myself. They are all steel now.
I like the idea CompuTutor had but with a high silicone low carbon iron solid core inserted into the higher carbon iron tube. The bundled welding rods as the center core should even be better.
Title: Re: Help with Low Carbon Iron
Post by: Paul-R on August 08, 2010, 09:47:32 AM
What about iron filings in a matrix of resin? Reduced eddy currents.
People speak of black iron oxide, usually availble ion Ebay.
Title: Re: Help with Low Carbon Iron
Post by: The Architect on August 08, 2010, 10:20:36 AM
have you tried searching specifically for wrought iron? I am sure there are suppliers out there that deal with supplying people with raw materials to make sculptures and fences and such with it.
Title: Re: Help with Low Carbon Iron
Post by: The Architect on August 08, 2010, 10:28:38 AM
not sure if these guys will help or not.

http://www.alfa.com/en/gp140w.pgm

they offer a wide variaty of shape and size as well as purity levels you may be looking for. but the prices are for chemically pure levels (essential for research really but cost prohibitive.)
Title: Re: Help with Low Carbon Iron
Post by: Hope on August 08, 2010, 03:42:27 PM
There are many metal makers across the world making this type iron.  There is a man in Grants Pass, Ore area that makes tomahawks and such, his last name is Joham. ( There are many such craftsmen around still )  they gather metal filings and foundry them to a variety  of ways.  I hope this helps you.  Good Luck