@all
There is a Cfl circuit that there is no doubt in my mind that has the abilty to use a small transformer and two diodes among other few parts and light a CFL bulb easily with just 5 volts.
My question is:
Is there any member on this forum that knows the way the transformer and the transistors are connected internally?
I mean the connection hidden inside the transformer.
Jesus
If we can learn the inner windings and connections of this transformer, we are halfway to overunity.
Anybody knows the internal windings of this transformer?
Jesus
Try posting this to the joule thief thread. I think some people there were playing with this a while ago.
Quote from: MrMag on August 15, 2010, 12:19:18 PM
Try posting this to the joule thief thread. I think some people there were playing with this a while ago.
I was one of them players.
Jesus
this is as close as i can find..
http://www.mouser.com/catalog/634/60.pdf (http://www.mouser.com/catalog/634/60.pdf)
hope it helps
robbie
Quote from: kooler on August 15, 2010, 02:14:29 PM
this is as close as i can find..
http://www.mouser.com/catalog/634/60.pdf (http://www.mouser.com/catalog/634/60.pdf)
hope it helps
robbie
Thank you @kooler!
Now I need to begin testing the transformer configuration.
Jesus
There is one coil winding in relation to ground that is missing.
But at least we have a very good idea of the transforner workings.
The coil missing is on the non dimming model shown on the pdf.
But it is not on the schematic. I think because it is too important.
Jesus
I was thinking something "funny", just how this spec. sheet circuit for the basic DC/AC inverter resembles the SR193's setup diagram. Albeit, nobody knows exactly the circuit or whether it's for real or not, still.
Then again I suppose everyone's guess is that the SR193 circuit is based on some inverter and you can't invent hot water there...
Thank you amigo!
Jesus
here's I've tried similar to your schematic if it can help:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-N5yB6_Ku1c
12v in, 120v out, regular ac/ac transformer
cheers
Nice video!
Jesus
Jesus:
That is a ccfl inverter made by TDK. This was all I could find so far:
Inverter : TDK TAD170 (5V) or 8m8619 (5Vor 12V)
Input current : 0,2A
Output current : 5,0 mArms
Drive frequency : 30 kHz (typ)
Interface connector
Used connector : IL-G-4S-S3C2 (*1)
Manufacturer : JAE
Pin No. Signal Name Function
1 HV High Voltage
2 NC Not connected
3 NC Not connected
4 GND Ground
I found this info here:
http://www.beyondinfinite.com/lcd/Library/Hosidan/HLM8619-010300.pdf (http://www.beyondinfinite.com/lcd/Library/Hosidan/HLM8619-010300.pdf)
I hope this helps a little. Seems to me a decent JT circuit will out perform this thing using an AA battery though.
Bill
Thank you @pirate!
Which joule thief circuit configuration you recommend?
Jesus
Thanks be given to:
@mrmag
@kooler
@amigo
@light
@pirate
I learnt with the information given to this point, that the secret of the high ac voltage output of this particular driver lies on an efficient use of a two transistor oscillator circuit.
I learnt the inner transformer connections except, the one related to ground.
Jesus
not only the oscillator.
the frequency in relation to the transformer is also important.
most of these circuits run at around 35Khz unloaded.
Here is one 12volt in 1200volt out.
Quote from: XS-NRG on August 16, 2010, 02:04:15 PM
not only the oscillator.
the frequency in relation to the transformer is also important.
most of these circuits run at around 35Khz unloaded.
Here is one 12volt in 1200volt out.
Thank you @xs-nrg!
I have one working since last year, using the same 9v battery.
That was why I wanted to know its inner connections.
Every time the lights go out here I use that tad170 light and it always work.
Jesus
If you use a cfl with filaments at both ends these inverters are no good.
You will get black tube ends rather fast because of the metal that evaporates and condenses on the glass tube ends.
If this is the case the tube will not work for long.
Normally these types of tubes also recieve a low voltage +/- 15 volt on it's filaments to pre heat the gas and to release electrons for a quick ignition.
So in essence, not all cfl's are suitable for this type of power supply.
Only the ones with the solid electrodes are suitable.
this is a modded picture can you tell ? haha
@ Jesus:
PM Jeanna and ask her. I don't recall which circuit exactly but, her Jeanna Circuit does a great job on CFL's. They use the large toroid which is hard to get these days so she developed another circuit using an easily available toroid that also lights a cfl very well.
@ All:
Remember, the transformer Jesus is speaking about was designed (at least from my brief readings) to light a CCFL, not a cfl. The cold cathode lights, used mainly for back lighting displays on computers and such, is a totally different animal from the cfl.
Bill
@xs-nrg
Quote
If you use a cfl with filaments at both ends these inverters are no good.
I used the small spiral tube.
@kooler
Quote
this is a modded picture can you tell ? haha
I does look good!
@pirate
Quote
PM Jeanna... , her ... Circuit does a great job on CFL's...They use the large toroid...
I will contact her.
Jesus
@all
I have a big question. Or at least for me it is big. Maybe for you is nothing.
I include a drawing with the question in it.
Jesus
@ Jesus
I think you are referring to a 3 phase circuit. I can't really find one, but you could use a 4017 decade counter, triggered by a 555 timer to achieve the same thing. Just use Mosfets on the outputs of the 4017 if you need more power.
Thank you @staffman
I was searching on the internet and found the same thing about this motor. It is a 3 phase bldc. The circuits and products recommended are with a pc.
I want to run it without a pc.
Could you make a sketch or diagram of your recommendation?
Jesus
NO 555 and NO 4017 to run a motor!
Use a pic micro for that.
Quote from: XS-NRG on August 29, 2010, 12:59:18 PM
NO 555 and NO 4017 to run a motor!
Use a pic micro for that.
you can get the hardware and software here :
http://silicium628.chez-alice.fr/variateur_pour_moteur_brushless/variateur_pour_moteur_brushless.html (http://silicium628.chez-alice.fr/variateur_pour_moteur_brushless/variateur_pour_moteur_brushless.html)
Great 8) nice site.
16F628A rulez.
Quote from: XS-NRG on August 29, 2010, 02:02:44 PM
Great 8) nice site.
16F628A rulez.
another one in english
http://www.aerodesign.de/peter/2001/LRK350/SPEEDY-BL_eng.html (http://www.aerodesign.de/peter/2001/LRK350/SPEEDY-BL_eng.html)
Yes i know lots of great sites!! :)
You don't have to get a kit you can make it all by yourself.
Grab some logic level fet's, a 20Mhz crystal with two 15-30pf caps, a voltage regulator 7805/7905 etc, the microchip 16f628A (about 2$), and a programmer+mplabs/microcode studio.
And off you go!
A breadboard can be handy for starters :)
Thank you @tagor
Thank you @xs-nrg
Here is a circuit I found on my search and the thing needed is the connection to a controller.
Which one do you recommend? Better is if it does not need to be programmed.
The other thing is, to what pins are this three terminals connected?
Jesus
to the output ports of the microchip :)
and you can add buttons to control the speed too.
Quote from: nievesoliveras on August 29, 2010, 04:06:27 PM
Thank you @tagor
Thank you @xs-nrg
Better is if it does not need to be programmed.
Jesus
Your biggest mistake.
http://www.microchip.com/stellent/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=2125¶m=en026178 (http://www.microchip.com/stellent/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=2125¶m=en026178)
Quote from: XS-NRG on August 29, 2010, 04:28:26 PM
Your biggest mistake.
http://www.microchip.com/stellent/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=2125¶m=en026178 (http://www.microchip.com/stellent/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=2125¶m=en026178)
I will begin to study all the information I have now.
Jesus
here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8lVI6-XStI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8lVI6-XStI)
as you can see he uses a small pcb with a voltage regulator.
the lcd is optional.
the pot is for the contrast of the lcd.
you can use 4 or more buttons.
*speed up
*speed down
*direction
*start-stop
and then you can add tons and tons of other fancy functions and sub routines :)
@xs-nrg
That was great!
What I do not see on the cicuit is the power connections of the pic.
I mean the negative and the positive.
Jesus
Well you can set almost any pin to be a input/output exept for the supply pins :) these are fixed.
And here is the typical voltage regulator circuit :)
Not all components are needed when the circuit is battery fed.
Hi Jesus,
I have to agree with XS-NRG using a pic would help in the long run. Although you do have to use a computer once to write your program, once it is debugged and running fine you don't have to touch the computer again. They allow a lot of flexibility in the long run because you don't have to change components around just tweak the program with your new settings and update.
This site has some very basics using a PicAxe controller which are very good stepping stones to more powerful uP's.
http://www.thebackshed.com/windmill/articles/PicAxe.asp
Look under projects on that site for other PicAxe projects.
Thank you @xs-nrg
The question is, the pic16f627a needs to be programmed? Or it just work when you power it?
Thank you @dreamthinkbuild
I checked the picaxe and it seems promising for a newbie like me.
Jesus
Yes offcource it needs software.
But that is what makes it so nice actually :)
You can write it yourself.
You can use and reprogram it over and over again.
I was once like you...
Always building circuits with fixed components.
Those days are over and i am so glad i started to look into microcontrollers :)
Then:
I cannot do it it is way too difficult.
I don't know how.
Do you see what i mean?
I know what your problem is and i know the solution to it.
And i will help you, if you want.
@xs-nrg
What is the software used to program the pic.
Does it need a special pcboard?
Jesus
You need a programmer and i use the Microchip MPlab software.
I also recommend to use microengeneering PICBASIC PRO toolsuite. :)
You can find how to integrate PICBASIC PRO into MPlab Here:
http://melabs.com/support/mplab.htm (http://melabs.com/support/mplab.htm)
And programmers are around everywhere if you do a search on PIC Programmer on google.
Here one of my favourites:
http://www.microchipdirect.com/ProductSearch.aspx?Keywords=PG164120 (http://www.microchipdirect.com/ProductSearch.aspx?Keywords=PG164120)
Thank you @xs-nrg
Lets see what I can do with all the suggested ways to run the brushless motor.
But it is definitely obvious that I have to step up from the way I do electronic circuits.
Jesus
In the meantime the parts reach my home I found a 4097 fantastic circuit that does not need to be programed.
Jesus
Today I was frustrated with the high prices of the PicBasic and Melabs experimenter boards. I am unemployed at this moment.
I asked for a donation, but then I found 2 inexpensive pic controller boards on a search.
A photo of them included. Which one do you recommend me to buy and why?
Jesus
Quote from: nievesoliveras on September 08, 2010, 12:00:05 AM
4097 fantastic circuit
Jesus
That is a
useless piece of shit and it won't bring you any good.
That thing is only good for blinking LED's not for motors or coils.
4017 suck very hard because there is a dead time in between the cycles and you field will fall off drop to zero before the next set of coils is energized.
You need a slight overlap between channels and prefferable programmable because then you can adjust it to your needs and wishes.
It needs to be crystal driven in high speed mode that will give you the timing you are looking for.
And you do not need a board, you just need the chip, a 20Mhz crystal, two capacitors and some buttons, and pherhaps a voltage regulator.
You can build it for about 4$ exept for the programmer but that is like your soldering iron it is just a tool and if you do things right it will be the most important tool you will ever have.
If you want a cheap programmer look for a PICkit2 clone on google.
All the files are there and you can also order cheap kit's.
Thank you @xs-nrg
About the crystal. Is it this the way to do it?
Jesus
Yep that's it, but i would replace the 4Mhz with a 20Mhz or at least the fastest it supports.
The capacitor values do change with frequency but there is a table in the microchip datasheet that tells you what value to use. :)
But the micro itself also needs to know which crystal is used, so don't forget to put it in the software's configuration bit's / word.
http://melabs.com/support/config_defaults.htm (http://melabs.com/support/config_defaults.htm)
Quote from: XS-NRG on September 10, 2010, 07:59:26 PM
Yep that's it, but i would replace the 4Mhz with a 20Mhz or at least the fastest it supports.
The capacitor values do change with frequency but there is a table in the microchip datasheet that tells you what value to use. :)
But the micro itself also needs to know which crystal is used, so don't forget to put it in the software's configuration bit's / word.
http://melabs.com/support/config_defaults.htm (http://melabs.com/support/config_defaults.htm)
I was reading the 16f628a document and found that it has an internal oscillator.
Do you know how to activate that intosc with code?
Jesus
The picture shows the parts where the internal oscillator is addressed.
You don't want to use that internal oscillator because it is RC based and it isn't as accurate as the Xtal driven microcontroller.
The internal osc is more for micro's that blink led's or drive LCD displays or something like that it is comapable to a 555 timer.
That is the reason i told you to use a crystal. :)
You can find alot of info in this book:
http://203.172.182.172/~chirayut/Picbasipro_30project.pdf (http://203.172.182.172/~chirayut/Picbasipro_30project.pdf)
And there is also alot of info in the microcode PIC Basic PRO help topics.
Thank you @xs-nrg
It is just that I would like to try that internal 4mhz feature.
I will read the posted book.
Jesus
With all the information studied I came out wirh this circuit.
I have to practice the way to program the pic to accomplish the task when it come from overseas.
Jesus
Okay if you look at the table i posted on previous page you can see that there are programmable pullup's on the B ports.
There are no programmable pullup's on the A ports so it's best to use these as output's in stead of the B ports.
The reason for this is that programmable pullup's can come in handy to use with control buttons otherwise you have to use external resistors which make things more complicated on the breadboard or PCB while you can use the internal build in pullup's. :)
Quote from: XS-NRG on September 13, 2010, 04:34:02 PM
Okay if you look at the table i posted on previous page you can see that there are programmable pullup's on the B ports.
There are no programmable pullup's on the A ports so it's best to use these as output's in stead of the B ports.
The reason for this is that programmable pullup's can come in handy to use with control buttons otherwise you have to use external resistors which make things more complicated on the breadboard or PCB while you can use the internal build in pullup's. :)
The problem I had was to keep 6 wires on a row sending their pulses in pairs. One negative and the other positive at the same time.
Counting the PortA in order there is the number four that is used for reset connection.
I will not use this motor backwards for now or any speed up speed down for the moment.
I will be content with just making it spin at least to 1000rpm for now. Later when I get this practiced I will move to the other things that can be done with these programs.
By the way I got the 20mhz crystals already. I have not been able to get the 22pf capacitors.
Jesus
you can use variables to control the motor very easy.
pressing buttons to control speed and overlap.
also you can add fancy sub routines if a button is pressed for over one second in stead of once the steps get bigger by x10 or 2sec= x100 and this will allow you to create a very nice drive for your project :)
or you can make it run away by itself in a certain amount of time.
you can do about anything with it and that's what makes it so great :)
I did a small job, earnt some money and ordered both of the drivers posted before. Just in case I fail.
Also on that order come the 6 mosfets.
Jesus
which mosfets did you order?
are they logic level?
the gate needs to be cmos compatible or you have to use additional circuitry to fully close it.
the thread title is about a CFL inverter, you are speaking of a motor etc.
what is your ultimate goal with it ?
i have designed many circuits like motionless high speed field rotation aswell as automatic resonance hunters to detect and tap into external energy fields. :)
there was even a time when i was building recievers to communicate with ghosts but that was a little bit off target and i never managed to get it to work :D
and now im glad i didn't get it to work because then i would probably be posting the same nonsence that L. Tseung twat is posting about.
It is not a motor. It is a car alternator. The high voltage cfl circuit will be integrated on the final result.
Then came that for running the alternator as a motor I needed to learn pic programming.
I can also use a hardisk spindle motor as the generator if I can make it run with the pic programming.
Sincerely, I got a litle lost now with all the obstacles.
Jesus
Maybe I open another topic with the name "Possible self running ilumination with a car alternator". Using the high voltage Cfl circuits.
Jesus
@xs-nrg
The touristic island of Puerto Rico is at:
I bought the picaxe board, an Et base dspic 30f4011, Et base dspic 16f628 and still I have not been able to program one of them microcontrollers.
Two of them ask for a programer, ...
Maybe I should try the one with the 4017.
Quote from: Staffman on August 29, 2010, 10:52:05 AM
@ Jesus
I think you are referring to a 3 phase circuit. I can't really find one, but you could use a 4017 decade counter, triggered by a 555 timer to achieve the same thing. Just use Mosfets on the outputs of the 4017 if you need more power.
Jesus
i already told you .....4017 SUCK
just don't
Quote from: XS-NRG on September 29, 2010, 05:37:50 PM
i already told you .....4017 SUCK
just don't
I will be very patient and will start from the beggining again.
Hi Everybody!
I have been unable to deal with the pic programming boards I have.
But I dont like to let an unfinished job.
The schematics posted deal with the sequence to drive the alternator and the code to enter on a microcontroller.
The purpose of it is to make the alternator to selfrun while keeping the battery charged with the battery connected to the alternator as usual.
any body with knowledge on high voltage circuits can use the energy produced to power anything his creative imagination allow him to do.
have fun!
Jesus