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Solid States Devices => Joule Thief => Topic started by: resonanceman on November 04, 2010, 10:50:12 AM

Title: UCVC
Post by: resonanceman on November 04, 2010, 10:50:12 AM
The circuit in the schematic  is the basic voltage control circuit.
For simplicity  I did not add a  means for  charging the cap.


This is  a very simple circuit ......but I thought I would break it down  for the people here that are fairly new at building circuits.

This schematic  is  of the U cap potentiometer and LED.
The dots on the ends of the lines coming from the U cap should  be considered  as connection points  for  the original means of charging the U cap.
The potentiometer  is used to drop  a variable amount of voltage , the LED is chosen  to provide an indicator light  and drop a more or less consistant  amount of voltage .

gary
Title: Re: UCVC
Post by: resonanceman on November 04, 2010, 11:54:31 AM
This  shows that the negative  side of  the U  cap and  the battery are kept at the same voltage.
The battery is shown as a separate battery  it can also be the source battery for the JT charging U cap.

gary


Title: Re: UCVC
Post by: resonanceman on November 04, 2010, 12:23:34 PM
This schamatic shows that the transistor acts as a simple switch that enables or disables the control coil

If  the transistor  is conducting then the impedance of the control coil drops .
If  you  have ever used more than one secondary on a JT you know that they must be matched very carefully.
If they are not matched most of the power will go to the lower inductance winding.
This circuit just takes advantage of  this simple fact.

As the voltage that remains after  the LED and pot reaches a level that starts turning on the transistor  the impedance of the winding drops effectively loweing the ability of the JT to charge the U cap.

This turns out to be a VERY soft switch. It  is not easy adjusting the pot because the LED does not come on all at once.
I like this quirk because it shows  more about the actual charge state then a simple on or off condition.

A zener diode would probably provide a much sharper transition than the LED .

So far the control coil is a secondary on the JT used for charging  the U cap.
I plan to test using a separate coil soon.

gary

Edit

I will  try to get a few pictures posted  in the next few days.

Title: Re: UCVC
Post by: resonanceman on November 04, 2010, 12:35:58 PM
I recommend using small supercaps in place of  U caps while  building and adjusting this circuit.
I  hooked 2   5.5V supercaps in series so I pretty much don't have to worry about going over rated voltage.

gary
Title: Re: UCVC
Post by: nievesoliveras on November 04, 2010, 05:19:00 PM
Is this just the secondary of the Joulethief?
Title: Re: UCVC
Post by: resonanceman on November 04, 2010, 06:56:07 PM
Quote from: nievesoliveras on November 04, 2010, 05:19:00 PM
Is this just the secondary of the Joulethief?

Jesus

This   circuit is for controlling voltage going to a Ultra cap.
The coil circled in red could  be called a secondary of the JT.
I added this  winding to a JT charger I already had.

I plan on  testing  a way to use this circuit with a JT charger that has no room on the toroid  for another winding.

Soon I will  switch to a schematic that shows  the JT charger and the voltage control circuit.

I wanted to try to keep  it as simple as possible at first........so I only did the voltage control circuit.

gary
Title: Re: UCVC
Post by: resonanceman on November 04, 2010, 07:06:36 PM
My goals for this circuit were

Low parts count.
Common parts only.
Charge indicator light , so I can gauge the  approximate charge level at a glance without a meter.

gary
Title: Re: UCVC
Post by: resonanceman on November 04, 2010, 07:27:48 PM
A few more details about this circuit.
A relatively large transistor is needed.
I tried a 3904 ........I could  not get it to work.
So far most of my tests have been with a TIP2055
I tried a MOSFET ......couldn't get it working........yet.



I use several meters when  expermenting  with this circuit.
I monitor  the voltage of the primary of my JT charger.
I also monitor my supercap voltage and my charge battery voltage.
I am not currently  trying to feed back to  the JT battery

This circuit may be easier to make using a candy cane  type JT charger.... with the candy cane  coils it is very quick and easy to add the secondary  for this circuit .
The  secondary I am currently  using is pretty much identical to my primary winding on this charger.
Both go through the centers of all the toroids.
I stopped using this kind of secondarys a long time ago because this type of secondary will always take  priority over the other windings....... it is just to powerful to co exist with the normal secondarys.

gary
Title: Re: UCVC
Post by: nievesoliveras on November 04, 2010, 11:17:26 PM
Thank you @resonanceman!

You have quite a project there.
The mosfet has to be driven by a small transistor like 2222A or similar.

Jesus
Title: Re: UCVC
Post by: resonanceman on November 04, 2010, 11:41:43 PM
Quote from: nievesoliveras on November 04, 2010, 11:17:26 PM
Thank you @resonanceman!

You have quite a project there.
The mosfet has to be driven by a small transistor like 2222A or similar.

Jesus

Jeasus

Thanks

:)

So if I understand right  you are saying that the mosfet setup would  have to be kind of like a darlington transistor?
I am still pretty new at building things ......and maybe a little slow.
Can you draw a schematic  of how the transistors would  be  wired?
I think MOSFETS would be ideal .......but  the fact that  they have little or no  current flowing through the base eliminates the LED indicator light.
That is really not a problem  because  the right sized coil added in series with the control  coil could  be used to power a LED whenever  there is  current  flowing through the  control  coil. ( I have done this on a few  charger circuits I have made )

gary
Title: Re: UCVC
Post by: nievesoliveras on November 06, 2010, 10:15:35 AM
It is not  Jeasus it is Jesus.  We must be clear on that.

The transistor 2n2222a can be changed by a tip3055 if it gets too hot during operation.

Jesus
Title: Re: UCVC
Post by: resonanceman on November 06, 2010, 10:39:20 PM
Quote from: nievesoliveras on November 06, 2010, 10:15:35 AM
It is not  Jeasus it is Jesus.  We must be clear on that.

The transistor 2n2222a can be changed by a tip3055 if it gets too hot during operation.

Jesus

Jesus

Thanks for taking time to draw the schematic.

It is not exactly as I thought it would be.
But it turns out that I have played with a circuit almost  exactly like that.
I didn't play enough with it to get it running like I wanted...... but I did hope to pick up where I left off later.

I was using  a TIP2033 where you have a MOSFET  and  a battery where you have your supercap.
My plan  was  to use the circuit to pulse an external coil........ In theory  almost any coil or ferrite core transformer could then be used as a JT.

gary
Title: Re: UCVC
Post by: nievesoliveras on November 07, 2010, 04:45:30 AM
Quote...My plan  was  to use the circuit to pulse an external coil..

Then you must try this other circuit instead.
Be careful with the possible high voltage output.
Post results.

Jesus
Title: Re: UCVC
Post by: resonanceman on November 07, 2010, 03:20:36 PM
Quote from: nievesoliveras on November 07, 2010, 04:45:30 AM
Then you must try this other circuit instead.
Be careful with the possible high voltage output.
Post results.

Jesus

Thanks  for the schematic.
Have you made this circuit?
WHat windings did you use for the coil?

It is similar to what I have been working on for quite a while.
The schematic looks very simple but it is kind of trickty to do.

WHen I first started out with my flyback/feedback tests I had to use a load to get it to work. I usually used a 60 or 90 LED array.
These arrays are relatively high impedance.
JTs NEED high impedance.
My flyback feedback tests involved adding coils in series in between the JT secondary and the load.
Most of those coils that I added were fed to a diode bridge and back to source.
I usually needed around 9 extra coils  to get the circuit to the self charging state.
The weekness of my flyback/feedback circuits was I had to keep adjusting the base resistance every few hours or it would stop charging .


I have corrected  a schematic that I did a month or 2 ago.
It is my complete JT charger with UCVC.
I did not post it before because it had some mistakes.
I think it is right now.
The violet diode  is optional  in some of the circuits I have made it added up to 2 V to the output. On others it  did not help at all.
This  schematic  is about the basic configuration  of the charger.
I still have not settled on the details of the coils

I can  get to the self charging state by adding  a bunch of small coils together.......or a few larger ones.
I am looking for ways to make a good practical compact coil for this circuit.
So far my candy cane coils are the best I have come up with.
but they are not very compact .....
As with other coils to much inductance will choke the whole circuit.
To little inductance and the JTs voltage will suffer.
With my candy cane coils the # of wraps per toroid and the number of toroids  have to be matched to the circuit.
Maybe  the best thing about my candy cane coils is , you can add more toroids for more power.
OOpps
I better explain that before we get a bunch of vultures in here.

:)

Any toroid will only handle a specific amount  of power .
With  my candy cane  coils you can add more toroids in series.
The output of the voltage seems to be the combined  ratio  of the windings on  the toroids  (Secondary ) and the primary going through the center of all the toroids.
Most of my best candy cane coils  have  lots of toroids with just a few windings on each ( 2 to 4 winding per toroid.)

What I am expermenting with now is using larger wire for the primary.
I need to get more large wire......like 12 gauge
My first tests with larger wire primary's seem to make a difference
( more electrons entrained? )



The bottom picture is of a candy cane coil lighting a 25W CFL
ALthough it is just barely lit up it is only using .118A
at 4.87V = 0.57466W

Transistor  TIP2055
Base resistor 3K
Base pot 5 K but it its lowest resistance .
No tank
42  5 for $1 toroids  4 wraps per toroid .
Primary is 4 wraps ......2 with 12gauge  2 using a previous 2 wrap primary of cat5 bifilar wire.

The CFL will not light up  with the 3K resistor .......bypassing  the resistor lights the CFL quickly.

I am still trying to get  down to 1.5 V .........but it may take a while.

gary
Title: Re: UCVC
Post by: nievesoliveras on November 07, 2010, 05:03:51 PM
I am just working with the circuit now to drive a car coil.  I need to play with the components in orfer to get a good spark at the car coil output.

Jesus
Title: Re: UCVC
Post by: resonanceman on November 07, 2010, 08:53:48 PM
Quote from: nievesoliveras on November 07, 2010, 05:03:51 PM
I am just working with the circuit now to drive a car coil.  I need to play with the components in orfer to get a good spark at the car coil output.

Jesus

Jesus

I am not sure what  you need sparks for.

Are you trying to make the coil yourself or just get some sparks?.

If you want a quick and dirty way to make a STRONG high voltage JT a MOT will do the trick.     ( Mictrowave Oven Transformer )

Back in the days when I was trying to make a JT with anything that had wires coming out of it I scared myself 2 times.
Once was when I made a JT out of a MOT.  I fried a 60 LED array a DMM and melted the insulation on  some alligator clips.
The other time was when I tried using an ignition coil  for a secondary on  a JT made from a flyback transformer core.
No real damage this time except alot of smoke and melted insulation from a couple  of my alligator clips.

If  you used an ignition coil as a secondary for a MOT JT I am pretty sure you would have a very good chance of scaring yourself before  you make some really nice sparks

:)

Just be careful. 
I am sure that  you know that this kind of voltage can be lethal

gary



Edit

Just in case not everyone understands  how to use an ignition coil as a secondary ..... just connect one wire of your JT secondary to each of the  low voltage posts of the ignition coil
The center post becomes the HV secondary ....... I do not remember exactly what I connected the other end to ......but I am pretty sure almost anything would do.
Now .......I think I would look for a HV cap in the .1uF range and use it to buffer the HV a little then connect that to a HV bridge.......then feed it back to source.
If the voltage drops to low when  you connect the cap....... try a smaller cap.

The cap will buffer the impulses just a little and act as a current limiter for  your feedback.

gary
Title: Re: UCVC
Post by: nievesoliveras on November 08, 2010, 05:07:50 PM
I will try to build a coil using a formula.
The formula is:

1. Divide the desired voltage by the voltage you have as source
2. The result is the step up number.
3. Chose a safe number of wire turns as a primary winding
4. Multiply it with the step up number (it gives the secondary turns number)

The circuit driver must be good. I have damaged a lot of parts with the heat produced on the parts.

Jesus