Another Magnet Only Based Design

[Apoc4lypse]

Idk if there is a way to edit posts here...

Anyway Kind of occurs to me that the flux in the center of the magnet runs one way while the outside runs the other way and that the center flux is stronger than both the outside running fluxes it would seem... so idk because the flux is cutting into the magnet hitting both the outside and the inside flux...

[Lancair-ES]

In a transformer your dealing with AC power which is alternating back and fourth creating pole shifts which is why it ends up having no directional magnetization, its being magnetized both ways as the current changes directions.

When you built your version of this type of magnet in the diagram above, how did you build it?

I discovered that when sticking together magnets the magnets flux likes to create sticking points as you build it depending on how you build it and in what order. Its not that there is no directional magnetization along the sides of it, its that depending on how you put the magnets together you end up with flux getting stuck at points during the assembly process.

For my current experiment I built two half circle arcs using small Neo's and I discovered that it wanted to spin but would get stuck at the areas where I joined the two half circles because if you think about it... As you build the two circle halves you end up with the strong flux exiting both ends of the half circle's then when you join them together the flux just sticks right where you joined them. I'm working on a 3d model I'm going to have a friend 3d print for me to see if I can assemble it the way I want that I think will end up having a balanced flux around it once assembled.

Even if the flux is concentrated inside of the magnetic ring assembly like was said above, the other magnets flux is still cutting through that ring perpendicularly and wants to move along side it.

Don't confuse AC electromagnetic properties with DC electromagnetic properties, they are very different, DC creates fields all flowing in one direction and can give you poles, but AC is operating in both directions so the poles cancel out. Over time though in a AC transformer the core will begin to become less efficient because its magnetic permeability is effected by the constant pole shifting that is used to magnetically transfer current between the winding's on the core. The cores magnetic permeability is related to the efficiency of that current transfer, the higher the magnetic permeability the better it will perform.

I had some thoughts about transformers too but I don't know enough to say either way yet and don't really have the right tools to experiment on them, but I think you could setup something that would be able to amplify currents by using magnets as a core while using DC currents and quickly opening and closing the circuits to kind of bounce the flux around. Its similar to the Toroidal Power Unit concept, but less likely to explode or do something dangerous since its not a toroid core and there would be far less magnetic resonance occurring inside the core since its not one solid ring toroid core where the fields are all connected in a circle and bouncing off of one another in a chain reaction.

The field from the outer magnets will enter the magnet assambly-ring but will not excert rotational force.
You can simulate this in FEMM 4.2. That simple software is pretty accurate - and for free. The ring and the outer magnet behave as there was nothing else around. No action.

[Apoc4lypse]

Yeah I just checked out that program, I wish I could generate fields in 3d.... 2 dimensional fields don't exactly cover the interactions I'm experimenting with completely, but I can see some of the problems with it. Thankyou.

[lumen]

Once you build a solid circular ring of close fitting magnets, the field will be trappped inside to such an extent that it will no longer attract iron.

[Low-Q]

Yeah I just checked out that program, I wish I could generate fields in 3d.... 2 dimensional fields don't exactly cover the interactions I'm experimenting with completely, but I can see some of the problems with it. Thankyou.

3D simulations are not needed. The reason is because, if you look at the magnetic fields as loops, or circles, for magnetic fields to interfer with one another, these "circles" cannot circulate perpendicular to eachother. Say one in horizontal plane and one in the vertical plane. They must be less or more than 90° on eachother to feel or measure any force.


However, if you simulate a radially magnetized (Not circular as in your example) ring magnet in FEMM, you do not see any field lines at all in the simulation - even if they are there in reality. The reason is because the field goes "out of the screen" and becomes invisible, while a possible external N-S bar magnet will show the field lines because the simulation only shows the field that is in plane with the screen.
So to solve this 3D problem with a radially magnetized ringmagnet, you must simulate the cross section of it - basically two rectangular magnets side by side where same polarity points towards eachother.


So, basically, FEMM do the job for you perfectly if you can draw the model in two different planes, and simulate each of them separately.


Br. Vidar