LTspice simulation of resonating Hydroxy Generator, am I wrong?

[poynt99]

Wow, thanks for the reply! 
Actually, the green line is not at zero, but, too small on the scale...
I forget how much... 

What I want to know is, does this cell have a COP of more than 1?
I mean, the cell seems to resonate at fixed frequency, the input power is less than output power.

Also, could electrical resonance, like in the LC circuit, achieve COP>1?

Sorry for my insufficient knowledge, I'm still learning.
Thanks for your patient guiding me... 

The first thing to do is to correct your green input power trace; voltage times voltage is not power, and it appears to me that you are multiplying the input voltage times 0.

.99

[ramset]

Poynt
Is your site up??

Chet

[lon92]

Hi again,
I don't know why, I reconstructed the same circuit today, but, I get a different result.

As before, green trace is the input, the blue trace is the output...
Input refers to power of the sine wave supply, output refers to power across the capacitor...

Thanks again! 

[TinselKoala]

Your power comparisons are colorful but essentially meaningless because you have an oscillating system. Consider one cycle of the output power. It is strongly positive....and then it's strongly negative. How can the power dissipation of a circuit be negative? It just means the sign of the current has changed, not that you are suddenly gaining power from somewhere or cooling the world with your coil.

The proper comparison to make is ENERGY. Input energy compared to output energy over a few cycles of the waveform.

To get energy from power, you need to "integrate" the power traces over a time period. When you do this you will have two "stairstep" looking graphs of Joules versus Time, and you can compare the slopes of these graphs to see if your total output ENERGY is accumulating faster than the total input energy.

[poynt99]

Ion92,

Fundamentally, there are a few "problems" with this circuit.

One of the most common errors that is made by unsuspecting folks when simulating electronics, and in particular, inductors and transformers, is the omission of the finite DC resistance associated with all wound components. A related error is assuming that all interconnecting circuit wires are perfect conductors.

SPICE operates like a computer program, and it processes exactly what you give it. No allowances are made behind the scenes for component parasitics; these must be addressed in an appropriate way by the person designing the simulations.

So as a minimum, you need to insert a resistor in series with the AC generator, and one in series with your output circuit.

The 10uF capacitor, which I assume is to represent the electrolyzer cell capacitance between the electrodes, is much too high a value. A more realistic value would probably be on the order of 100pF or so, but this would have to be measured. As well, a water-cell capacitor such as this is much more complicated than a basic capacitor, because there is a resistance associated with the path between the plates. So, there should also be a resistor in parallel with that 100pF capacitor.

As the circuit stands, there is no point in measuring the power in either the AC generator, nor the cell capacitor, because there are no dissipative elements in the circuit. In theory, all of the energy that goes out of the generator, goes back to the generator. See the flaw?

With the resistors added as I suggest, you will have real dissipation and energy "used" in the circuit.

SPICE is a tool, and as I have pointed out, if not used correctly, erroneous values and conclusions may result.

.99