Do you want to see THE REAL THING ? - FUEL from CO2 and WATER !!!

[hoptoad]

This one drums up interesting images in my mind. One is an automobile that runs off of normal fuel and has the catalyst in the tailpipe that combines with water and gets fed back into the gas tank.

Kind of like a car that runs off of water, but it keeps going by burning and recycling the fuel.

When you burn a carbon based fuel completely you get the by-products of carbon dioxide and water. What does it take to combine them back together again and still get more energy out of them? My guess is that electrolysis is somehow involved in this reaction and the hydrogen and oxygen are used to build the fuel molecule out of the carbon.

A vehicle that runs off of it's own waste products.

One Carbon Dioxide Molecule(C⁺⁺⁺⁺O^--₂) and Two Water Molecules (H⁺₂O^--) if forced into a reaction, can result in One Methane Molecule C^----H⁺₄ and Two Oxygen Molecules (O₂)

Methane and Oxygen will burn in a complex three stage reaction, but will ultimately result in .... you probably guessed ..... Carbon Dioxide and Water!

It would be a very interesting process if they can force the creation of Methane and Oxygen from CO2 and Water, without a great expenditure of input energy, as is the case with conventional electrolysis to make, for example, Hydroxy gas (HH O).

Forcing a Carbon atom to go from a net electron giver (+ charge in the molecule relationship), to a net electron taker (- charge in the molecule relationship) would normally require a significant input of energy.

However, electrolysis using an inert catalyst such as palladium (in nano granule form) suspended in a CO2 enriched water based electrolyte, may be one possible cost effective solution.

Of course they may not be making Methane at all, but my curiosity about their process and product is certainly aroused regardless. What a pity the information currently released is so minimal.

Cheers

[TheNOP]

@hoptoad

my guess is that, they do plan to go the methane route.

they have the energy source the future...
and you guess it, it won't be free.
just as with petrol, there is money to do it this way.


syngas are not new, they tought about it a few decades ago.
but they drop the idea for money reasons and also for technical ones.
it cost less pumping petrol out the ground then make methane.
methane is also more corrosive.


it is a pity since gasification process on demand is working.
Wood Gas Generator  was actualy used from 1884 to 1950.

now we have something even better, that do about the same process, the Pantone's GEET devices.
but we won't see this sold in store anytime soon...

[Creativity]

cool i will try to get some more info on this one,but there is a chance they wont reveal no details as long as it is a technology race.
Anyhow it is good to know we can stay off the fossils and wars connected with it!Should also solve lot of concerns in Europe lately about Russia and it's monopoly in energy sector.

[drspark]

Group,

The water shift reaction is a starting point for a study
of reactions that happen during biomass and other
materials like kerosene or crude oil, thermal gasification.

Some of the main reactions:
C+O2 -> CO2+Heat;
H2O+C+Heat -> CO+H2;
CO2+C+Heat -> 2CO;
H+H -> H2+Heat;
Plus many others depending on system design.

During gasification what is desired, is the molecules
are heated to the point they fall apart and turn into
a HOT soup of atoms. The longer the molecule is in
the heat, the further it gets broken down. Called
residence time.

This I believe is why GEET eats smog and other oxides
like NxOy becomes xN+yO The yO is free to
play part in reactions later.

Some molecules slip through in most systems.

If you started with Hexadecane, one of the molecules in kerosene.
It is C16H34, after heating, (in a perfect world) results in HOT 16C
and 34H The "hot atom soup"
repeat reaction;
The steam, H20 after heating, (iapw) results in HOT 2H and 1Oxygen

IN A PERFECT REACTION:
While the "soup" cools free carbons have a greater affinity
with oxygen than zippy hydrogen.
So we need 16 oxygen atoms from water or air, to pare up
with the 16 carbons from the Hexadecane.

The end result is synthesis gas 16CO and 17H2 + another
16H2 from the water.

Back to the slipped molecules.
It is hoped that none of the C16 would be there, fragments of it may or will.
When the larger molecules start cooling, Hydrogen must be supplied for each
side of the crack or as the cracked up gasses cool they will recombine, in
the cooler / condenser, into tangled HCx with carbon bonded to carbon,
looping the remaining chain of carbons back onto itself and or others.
Molecules of anything C<16 can be created this way BUT with out catalysts,
who knows what??? Any advanced organic chemist,I am sure would have a clue.

As long as the molecules are smaller than the C16? molecules than your going
in the correct direction, they will burn. Simply broken in half and ends
patched with hydrogen. One kerosene,Hexadecane molecule becomes two
gasoline octane molecules. Already vaporized for use and mixed up with the synthgas...

This can be done with brute force heat OR corona discharge plasma.
Its being called Non-equilibrium Thermodynamics.
the CO2 system is called CO2 fixing

CO2 a fuel? (water shift react CO2 into methane - propane with plasma)
Science Links Japan | A Study on the Ionization of CO2 and Discharge Conditions in a Magnetically Supported Glow-discharge
http://sciencelinks.jp/j-east/article/200417/000020041704A0600519.php

Add device to engine that uses waste calories to gasify kerosene(clean)
into light gasses and burn them... (again water shift reaction) GEET

DrSpark