What's up with Steorn?

[billmehess]

They have spent millions all right all investor money. I am sure they have been all personally
taken a "few" Euro for themselfs. Their cherade will continue as long as the investor money keeps rolling in

[lumen]

I know this thread is questioning the solid state device, but I'm not so sure it's that easy to write off the previous device. I have not graphed the data but it already seems like something is puzzling about it.

This is a brief description of what I'm thinking, and the values I am using are real.
First, lets say a magnet is attracted at a close distance to a toroidal core with a force of 200 grams.
When a current is applied of 100 ma, the force reduces by 10 grams to 190 grams attraction force.
When a current is applied of 1000 ma the force reduces by 100 grams to 100 grams attraction force.

This all makes sense. Now, as the distance is changed in steps of .01", the change in attraction force remains linear! The 10 gram reduction from the 100 ma current remains a 10 gram reduction at every distance until a 10 gram reduction results in no attraction.

The same applies for the 1000 ma current and the 100 gram reduction.
The strange part is that the distance itself causes the normal square x distance reduction in attraction and is not linear.

So given this, what it really means is that at some speed, the energy expended in the current pulse to reduce the attraction could be less than the energy gained from the attraction. But this is only proven by the mathematics of one part of the interaction and not necessarily true due to unknown other events.

[exnihiloest]

I'm really only trying to educate myself here, but didn't Naudin show that there was no Lenz effect when his motor was powering those hi-power LED's with the air-core coil?

And why would a company spend millions on patents and development on something that doesn't work?  The "scam" argument just doesn't cut it...

and why hundreds of inventors spend money for not working patents about perpetual motion machines?
and why are there billiards of people believing in Allah or in Jehovah or in Krishna or in all other not compatible divinities thus we are sure at least the most of them are wrong?

The truth doesn't not depend on who claims that he gets it or on how he pretends he got it. The truth arises from evidence of facts and observations.

About Naudin: Lenz effect is only the reaction to an action. If there was no Lenz law in some cases then not only electromagnetism would to be trashed but also Newton's mechanics. So we have to carefully verify such claims as "Lenz law doesn't apply!". In fact, we see that Lenz law is not a problem, as well as "back emf", because the energy from reaction can always be recovered (minus the losses). If the losses are very weak, action+reaction almost compensate one another as if "there was no Lenz law". But the losses prevent to loop such a device and that is why the facts show that Naudin and Steorn fail to build a self-runner device.

[TinselKoala]

Because of the controversy around the energy required for the magnetic interaction of Steorn's claim, I spent a few hours collecting data on the event.
Mainly interested in the mechanical relationship between a magnet and a toroid coil, the data represents the attraction to the toroid core with constant current applied and without any power in small distance increments.
The main reason for the tests, was to find the maximum length of an electrical pulse at a given current that would compare the energy gained during the attraction to the core, to determine the time required to remove the magnet from the core to reach the break even point.

Uh-huh.

I would be interested to know how you made your measurements.

I was interested in this as well, so I did some careful measurements. I used a Shimpo digital force gauge, with milliNewton readouts. I mounted the Shimpo vertically on a micrometer stage, so I could control its position to the tenth of a millimeter; I mounted a typical 1/2 inch NdBFe magnet (same as I used in my Orbette 2.0 replication) on the sense end of the force gauge. The toroid under test was mounted rigidly under the force gauge/magnet/micrometer assembly, and was supplied with DC power from a regulated supply, with current monitored by a Fluke 87 multimeter. I tested several toroids by applying currents of different values (like 0, 50, 100, 200 mA) and recording the attractive force as indicated on the force gauge as the separation was taken from 0.1 mm to 20 mm by the micrometer, first at 0.1 mm intervals and then at 1 or 2 mm intervals for the larger distances (typically about 30 data points per current level per toroid).
I spent several hours a day for about a week taking this data; it was intensely boring.

I was surprised by several things: One, the reduction in attractive force at a given distance, when current is applied, can be very small, a few percent or even less, for toroids that produce typical performance in an Orbo motor. It's hard even to see the differences on some of the graphs, the change in force is so small---but it's effective in the motor design.
Two, good Orbo toroids saturate relatively quickly: increasing the current beyond the saturation point does not reduce the attraction further, it only wastes energy.

[lumen]

TK,
I agree my tests are somewhat crude compared to your equipment, but even so, the effect shown was a near constant change in force for the same current,regardless of the distance.
The coil I used tested 14 Henry with a 7.6 Ohm resistance when cold. (changes as it gets warmer)
I used a constant current circuit so the current would be that same regardless of coil resistance. The watts drawn may increase as the resistance increases, but the constant current would assure a constant field in the core.
My scale is only a modified digital fish scale that I added a clamp bar directly to the sensor platform to eliminate any plastic effects from the normal handle. I have tested it for accuracy and it is surprisingly good, although it only measures in increments of .01KG.
Regardless of that, I believe the data I have is close enough to see the distance to current relationship.
If you are interested, I can sent you the coil and magnet used. You can then test the same conditions to verify the results. I have several of these cores and even though this coil really sucked to wind, you don't need to send it back.