Selfrunning HHO system with 400 Watts additional output

[weirdal]

2.5V * (N-1) is enough voltage to eletrolyze with reasonable electrolyte.  So you want at least 50V @ 40A.  35Vrms will peak at 50V, and your capacitors will droop after that. All is not lost, but you are running kind of ragged.  The simplest solution is to reduce the number of plates from 21 down to 14 or 15.    Your capacitors aren't really what you want.  At line frequency, your rail will droop about 1V for every ampere at 8,333 uF.    It would be a good idea to limit the droop to no more than 30% peak or 40% of the rms value.  So:

C = 8,333uF / A / V * 40A / ( 35V * 40% ) ~ 24,000uF.  You will need a ton of 100uF motor start capacitors to get there.  The caps should be rated at least 80V.

Another option is to remain light with the capacitors.  In that case, the electorlysis will start and stop 120 times per second as the voltage rises above 1.23V + margin per plate pair.  If you frop to 14 or 15 plates then you will get electrolysis about 50% of the time at a current that rises and falls 120 times per second.  So, you will maybe get about 25% the output as you will if you use 24,000uF of caps.  You will be more limited by the ripple current.  If you put ten of these in parallel, your ripple will be under control for a 14-15 plate design:

http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/SLPX682M080E9P3/338-1653-ND/1882130

Thank you, this was very helpful. For the cost of capacitors I wonder if just using a stick welder for a power supply and plugging into a bigger bridge rectifier (KPBC8010 - 80A) will do the trick as output voltage is 50V and amperage is adjustable. I need to get about 7 LPM to run my genset so I don't know if a 14-15 plate design will produce enough, unless I run two of them separately.

[MarkE]

The problem is that you need the capacitors of some size in order to maintain the DC voltage.  Output is a function of the number of plates, the plate area, and the current.  The number of plates sets the floor on the voltage needed to produce gas.

[mscoffman]

weirdal,

How about letting us knows how it goes, Len Banki seems to indicate that one cause of troubles in this field is having insufficient HHO
to meet the motors energy demands with the subsequent problems that can cause. For example his estimate is that one needs
2400Watts for a gen loaded 11HP engine.  George Wiseman's capacitive impedance driven 240VAC at 10amp = 2400W HHO generator
produces 1600 LPH 1atmos. HHO. You say you need only 420LPH, something is not quite adding up with 2400Watts in but I wondered
what HP rating your engine is? Don't give up too quickly on looping as there may be some alternatives to try.

The other thing is he says precise control of the amounts of HHO put into the engine are required which would seem somewhat
more difficult for the average experimenter to achieve.


:S:MarkSCoffman

[weirdal]

Ok, I'll see how much I can get out of my cell and plan on re-sizing it as suggested and add the necessary capacitors. FYI - The generator I'm using is a Champion 41552:

http://www.championpowerequipment.com/generators/41552/
http://www.championpowerequipment.com/pdf/manuals/41552/41552_manual-english.pdf

I'll be using a gaseous fuel injector for improved efficiency.

-Al

[Les Banki]

Ok, I'll see how much I can get out of my cell and plan on re-sizing it as suggested and add the necessary capacitors. FYI - The generator I'm using is a Champion 41552:

http://www.championpowerequipment.com/generators/41552/
http://www.championpowerequipment.com/pdf/manuals/41552/41552_manual-english.pdf

I'll be using a gaseous fuel injector for improved efficiency.

-Al

Al,


I see you are new here and have already fallen 'prey' to the resident FULL TIME SABOTEUR of this Forum!!


His "advise" is the most technically ABSURD post I ever had the misfortune to read since I started reading/posting on several forums more than 10 years ago!


It is downright CRAP!
ALL OF IT!
It is VERY clear that he has NO knowledge whatsoever about electrolysis and has NEVER made an electrolyser of any description in his miserable life!


The "game" he is PAID to play was already last several DECADES ago!
His performance is PATHETIC to the point of being embarrassing.


Now to the technical part.


The generator you have has the same rating as mine and a couple of friends' who are duplicating my WFGP.
The cell you have described is NOT big enough to run a generator of this size.


Basically, you have two options:
You could get two more cells like the one you already have and connect them in SERIES.
You then have 63 cells but may still need some current limiting, yes, capacitors but NOT 24.000µF!!
(24.000µF, my ASS!  What an idiot!)


or,


Make an electrolyser like mine but with 68 cells, which will become SELF-REGULATING.


If you wish to see HOW it is done, you should visit these links:


http://www.energy-shiftingparadigms.com/index.php/board,9.0.html


http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=2578.msg41402;topicseen#msg41402


where you don't have to worry about saboteurs, they are on READ ONLY!


Cheers,
Les Banki