Perpetual batteries from Vasilescu-Karpen

[profitis]

Hi d3xor.can you point out where MnO2/nickel was used and what electrolyte was used for it please.

[d3x0r]

Hi d3xor.can you point out where MnO2/nickel was used and what electrolyte was used for it please.

Sorry; I guess I wasn't watching 100%, he brushed through some that he had tried http://youtu.be/VYXzzTSJATU?t=16m20s but didn't measure the nickel


photopaper, gum arabic as binding agent, dunno if it was plate/foil nickel or nickel powder in arabic like the zinc etc... air I guess
they were all dry-pile, which is just really low oxidizing rate stuff... he said http://youtu.be/VYXzzTSJATU?t=17m17s a full cell... but not function ...


caustic potash was probably with nickel/mno2

There's a 1.01 multiplier I guess...

[profitis]

If caustic potash was used with MnO2/Ni it is absolutely not galvanic corrosion in that particular case @D3xor

[mscoffman]

Dear profitus,

This is off topic post and I wonder if you could think about this before you answer.

I would like to build an (oxygen) Karpen's cell of some sort using the Pb / PbO2
case / frame / paste / structure / carcass of a flooded sulfuric acid/lead battery *but*
minus the sulfuric acid liquid.  So I would remove the H2SO4 electrolyte that comes
with the battery rinse / purge the cells and then add the electrolyte that you recommend.
This can also be accomplished through the purchase of an over the counter "dry charged"
battery where the acid electrolyte comes in separated containers from the battery frame. 

My Goal:
The goal would be some small but usable electrical power output but *without* charging
the battery to put energy into it. Obviously I am attempting to make somewhat
usable OU amounts of power without galvanic chemical changes to the batteries
lead frame from attempting this.

Obviously;  I would not expect anywhere near the power of a standard lead
acid cell and I would acquiesce to depolarizing the battery in pulses to use it.
Also I recognize that this would be a potentially highly contaminated
environment in these cells because at least the lead oxide paste is apparently
initially made from sulfuric acid. Also there is calcium and other metal alloys
used in the making the lead metal plates of the battery plates.

The positive aspects of such a battery:
A twelve volt battery would give me 6 x times the output voltage of a single battery cell.
I can increase electrode area therefore the current substantially by using commercially
available larger 2VDC AL cells. I would expect that there would not be cell corrosion
or sulfurization of cells because the lack of sulfur in the weak electrolyte. Also the wear
on the lead frame of the battery would be substantially minimal with the lower expected
cell power.

I know that there is something called a water battery which already exists which uses a
drinkable water electrolyte to produce small amount of power. Hopefully a Karpen's cell
could allow me to do better than that in terms of electrical power output.   

----

Is the above possible?, what electrolyte should be tried?, what chemistry steps should I use?,
should it use a polarization charge?, should the battery cell caps be sealed?, What sort of
result can / should I expect?

Question;  would it be possible to electroplate the lead plate by temporarily putting
electroplating solution into the cells?

I would like to build a semi-permanent oscillating pendulum using the output of these
batteries, which would use the well-endowed weight of the lead batteries as its
suspended plumb mass. This would agitate the heck out of the chemical system too.

Thank you for your consideration!

:S:MarkSCoffman

[MarkE]

There are various metal plus oxygen cells that have been experimented with and/or developed over the years.  The wikipedia article on metal air batteries is minimal but there are lots of papers elsewhere on the internet.