Shorting coil gives back more power

[woopy]

Hi Gyula

Yes we crossed our post yesterday but no problem at all

Just for your question yes i use the exact described circuit in the video but i think that after your recent post it is OK

For the hall sensor i used the same SS443A but one is simply flipped 180 degree, so one is actuated by a south pole and the second by a North pole. It is why i get the posituve and negative shorted trace on the scope. The advantage of the 2 hall sensor is that i can tune each indepedantly exactly at the right place along the rotor.
Just to notice on my drawing in the video i try to represent the second flipped Hall sensor but i have inverted the + and 0 please correct it.

And now thank's for the schematic without the Mosfet driver i will also try it ASAP  ( don't worry i am not racing but simply very motivated)

Now and not least  i noticed with this experiment that the shorting of the coil produces  the same voltage INDEPENDENTLY of the rotor speed but DEPENDENTLY of the load resistance.

I mean if as per the video "test 5" i have 13 LED in parallel the shorting voltage produces  about 4.2 volts(on my setup of course) at all speed of the rotor.

That means that as per the same setup with the same load resistance,, from a  very low rotor speed up to very high rotor speed the PRODUCED SHORTED  VOLTAGE is constant ??

In the same config if i install a Neon bulb instead of the 13 LED in parallel , the produced shorted voltage will be about 90 volts at all speed.

So it iseems to be not necessary to have high rotor speed to get more PRODUCED SHORTED VOLTAGE (PSV), as if the basic setup (coilwinding , impedance , inductance, magnet gauss etc ) once in the SHORTING MODE  stays constant indepedantly of the speed.

And of course  i can not prevent me to think at the FERRIS wheel of John Bedini which spin very slowly . Is JB  using also a kind of shorting the coils in the device  ??


OK enough for tonight

Hope this helps

and good luck at all

Laurent

[gyulasun]

HI Laurent,

I must finish again, now all I wish to say is that single white LED behaves exactly like it would be a 3.3V Zener diode (paralleling many of them slightly reduced this voltage towards 2.9-3V or so). I say this because this behavior is what makes you believe you wrote in red whenever you have the LEDs as the load.  Any time you do not have the LEDs in place but have other loads like a resistor the voltage level will be higher than 3-4V and will be RPM dependent. Tomorrow will comment some more.

Gyula

[desa]

@gyulasun 
Thank you on your circuit. It is something I was looking for long time. I am setting it up to make replication. One thing I am unsure so please clarify if possible. The charge battery SW1, can you please explain function of this switch. Is it simply on switch or the component of some sort as the timing function.
@ Laurant
Great videos. Keep it coming. It helps so much to see it. Some of us are more visually inclined. I would eventually like to integrate this circuit in my Windmill to bust capacity and eliminate heating problem in the coils.
David.

[gyulasun]

---snip---
Bipolar Switch Hall-Effect:
Bipolar sensor ICs are designed to be sensitive switches. (Note that the term "bipolar" refers to magnetic polarities, and is not related to bipolar semiconductor chip structures.) A bipolar switch has consistent hysteresis, but individual units have switchpoints that occur in either relatively more positive or more negative ranges. These devices find application where closely-spaced, alternating north and south poles are used, resulting in minimal required magnetic signal amplitude, Î"B, because the alternation of magnetic field polarity ensures switching, and the consistent hysteresis ensures periodicity.
http://www.allegromicro.com/en/Products/Design/bipolar/index.asp

Hi joefr,

Yes, it seems the best choice for alternatingly positioned magnets to use the bipolar type Hall sensor, that responds to both magnetic poles. I have not used such, only unipolar types. It is interesting Laurent finds the SS443A Hall sensor type reacts to the opposite pole from its back side, I never tried it with my types, lol  (I used Infineon TLE series TLE4905 unipolar in the past.)
If some type of Hall sensor operates correctly from its back side to the North  pole and also correctly from its front side to the South pole, then there is no need for a bipolar type Hall device.  (hmmm...)

Thanks, Gyula

EDIT:  Will draw schematic with a 4421, maybe tonight.

[gyulasun]

@gyulasun 
Thank you on your circuit. It is something I was looking for long time. I am setting it up to make replication. One thing I am unsure so please clarify if possible. The charge battery SW1, can you please explain function of this switch. Is it simply on switch or the component of some sort as the timing function.
....

Hi David,

This is what I drew
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=10398.0;attach=51183   and all the rest of the schematics (except my modification of yesterday) shown in the thread on coil shorting is drawn by Doug Konzen and he tested them too, I am not sure if he tested the switch SW1 you asking. He wrote at EVGRAY yahoo group that the timing for SW1 should be as follows:
When the puffer capacitor (shown as 3500uF/100V) is charged up via the diode bridge, SW1 should be open. And when there is no charging current coming from the bridge, SW1 is activated, its duty cycle needs experimenting.
So it sounds as SW1 is operated in between the spikes that are caused by the MOSFET switch, charging time for the puffer cap is to be considered too.

rgds,  Gyula