Shorting coil gives back more power

[romerouk]

@bolt
Thank you for your tips.
I am only hopping to get it running without a battery as everyone here, I know is not easy task
I am not relying only on the shorting of the coils to get it self powered.
One other important factor here is also the mass of the rotor and the Hope is the last that goes.
It is already running from a capacitor and loses the power after about a minute but with small improvements everyday I can slowly increase that time, still I a hopping...
Regarding the SS AC Relay I am surprised to get that voltage increase without any signal applied to it, just the terminals connected to the coil.I am not using it now in my setup, I have tried it and saw that voltage increase and the wave changed..

[bolt]

Also, when you found the output from the coils is still not enough to run from a capacitor then you had shorting on BOTH sine wave peaks or only on a single single peak like in the scope shot?
Thanks,  Gyula

Oh yes i forget you can short both side of the sine wave for even more power. Design gets pretty complex though because now all your electronic switching must be floating as no common ground. Use 2 separate tuned series caps thru a Pi Tank and you have to mix the two signals using a balun alike RF mixer to down convert impedance into dump cap via the FWBR. Please don't just try and stuff them together down one cap you will waste all your hard work and effort.

The circuit will be balanced very much like 300 ohm feeder amplifiers if you want the best possible power transfer.

[bolt]

@bolt
Thank you for your tips.
I am only hopping to get it running without a battery as everyone here, I know is not easy task
I am not relying only on the shorting of the coils to get it self powered.
One other important factor here is also the mass of the rotor and the Hope is the last that goes.
It is already running from a capacitor and loses the power after about a minute but with small improvements everyday I can slowly increase that time, still I a hopping...
Regarding the SS AC Relay I am surprised to get that voltage increase without any signal applied to it, just the terminals connected to the coil.I am not using it now in my setup, I have tried it and saw that voltage increase and the wave changed..

You are doing very well and learning fast. Im not knocking you for that as you have now proven to everyone that coil shorting is a very valid method but requires some refinement in the art to make it work ready for looping. I seen others go through the very same growing pains. If i can help get you there faster Im sure that's a good thing!

The capacitor is holding up well which means you need some more shorts, a bit more tuning and you will have a looper.  BTW the mass doesn't come into it in fact a small device has a much higher ratio of friction and losses compared to a large machine. For these generators to make serious power bigger is better. Of course eventually IMO solid state is the way to go which is why magnacoaster and kapadanze plus others all started with mechanical OU generators and now you know about coil shorting then go solid state from what you will learn.

There is no difference from a wheel going around with a magnet on it passing a coil OR have a coil with a magnet beside it and pulse it stationary. Only provision the trigger coils sits over the Bloch Wall so the coil collapse when sine shorted cuts the magnetic lines of force. The result is the same.

[popolibero]

Hi guys,

I'm working on shorting coils as well. I started on a small bedini 3 coiler which I modified from 3 to 6 magnets (higher frequency for less work) and made it hall triggered. I then tried the conehead mosfet arrangement with two more halls which works well, although I run the hall signal through a schmitt-trigger gate to invert the signal. I also tried using the "shorting signal" to trigger a 555 timer circuit where I can adjust the duty cycle from 0 to 100% besides frequency, so that for one hall impulse I would get many shortings thanks to the 555. The drive circuits and mosfet have a very fast rise fall time (20-50 nS range..) so it should be quite close to a mecanical switch.

For now I don't have more out than in, btw forgot to mention that the collecting cap (50uF)gets pulsed at a lower frequency into a 240/110V - 12V step down transformer, then through a FWBR and to a load + low voltage cap.

I've put 4 generator coils in series for a total of about 150V which then gets shorted and give spikes to almost 1000V. But somehow pulsing more then once per peak didn't give a greater result, I got many smaller pulses or one big, but the result is about the same, as I can monitor that from the collecting cap voltage since it gets discharged from the step down circuit at a constant rate. These were generator coils with many windings and small gauge.

Since I can't fit bigger coils into that frame I decided to go solid state and simulate the "motor" with a tank circuit, coil and cap in parallel driven by 555 timer and fet as a "motor coil" with a very large generator coil sitting on top of it which then gets shorted in same manner. Still working on that trying different generator coils. Bifilar coils connected in series give a huge ringing (many vibrations that last a long time) but less voltage. I guess it's also about finding the right coil, but so far I think the higher the sine voltage the better? I have to modify the circuit to try many shortings per peak since it's solid state, so no hall. I'll let you knowhow it goes...

regards,
Mario

[gyulasun]

Hi Romero,

Thanks for the scope shot on the parallel waves. I think your sentence: "The voltage is almost double when the AC SS relay is connected." is the possible explanation in that the SSR includes a snubber circuit across its output side (embedded in the body). Normally a snubber circuit for 50-60Hz mains frequency operation in such SSRs includes a series RC circuit, connected inside in parallel with the output of the SSR. The possible range is for R=120-200 Ohm and for C=47-100nF or around that range and I think you create a near resonance situation when you connect the SSR output to the coil.
You may check this if you have some similar value capacitor at hand (no need for the series R) and connect some caps (one at a time) in parallel with the coil and watch how the waveform amplitude changes, ok? 
Also, when you have the SSR connected in parallel with the coil, watch the output waveform and slow down the rotor mechanically because then you can 'tune' the created frequency which either sweeps through resonance or gets further away from it, you will see it from the amplitude change (highest amplitude is at resonance of course). You can do this 'tuning' when you connect capacitor(s) across the coil of course.

When you have done these tests please write the results.

Would you reflect to my yesterdays question on your shorting also the negative peaks of the sinewave when you described your running from capacitor?

Thanks, Gyula

@gyulasun
Picture with the wave when the SS AC Relay is connected.When nothing connected I get a normal single line sinewave.The voltage is almost double when the AC SS relay is connected.As I said before, I connect only the 240v side nothing on the input of the relay.I have more than one AC SS Relays and all are doing the same, normaly the system should not do anything without input to the relay.
Picture with the both relays I use, AC for shorting and DC to dump the charge from the capacitor, once for every rotation.
I hope there are some ather people to test what I am saying, I am very courious to see...