Hydro Differential pressure exchange over unity system.

[minnie]

Hi there,
             this is a quote from Einstein.   " Insanity, doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."
                  John.

[wildew]

As long as it doesn't happen on takeoff or landing.....

Stuff happens.....
That was at about hour 10 - we get along a lot better now.

The comment about "being wrong": As stated and intended would apply to others more, particularly;
- Can't work
- Won't work
- Stop wasting time

So in the TK vs Wildew case it's not completely black and white.
I'm not saying it absolutely DOES work - TK's not saying it absolutely DOESN'T
Point taken

Nice night shot, I forwarded to a friend on Long Island.
He needs a boost.
Dale

[Red_Sunset]

.......................Well, what you are asking is kind of like, "if pigs had wings, pilot's licenses, current medicals and clearance from the tower, could they fly?" In other words, an energy input is required to make your hypothetical piston do what it is supposed to do, but your conditions don't allow that. So sure, if the world of Avatar were real, the people would have blue skins. If the Pope was a Southern Baptist, he'd still have to ....er...... use the toilet now and then.
What is the point of constructing impossible hypotheticals? ......................................

You can't be serious in asking this question..surely? Isn't it obvious  ...........................................................

Tinsel & Seamus,
Thank you for your answers,  you both came within the expected range of replies.

Your answers to the little example exercise that required only a "can you imagine this, a type of Barney play", for doing this hypothetical exercise. Your answers clearly characterized how you view and evaluate the world around you.  How you handle an "out of the box" situation.  Allow me to have made the following observations and conclusions,

** Tinsel could somewhat get along with the idea but definitely preferred both his feet on mother earth. 'Out is out' and not preferable. Although if pushed harder, he would make the leap into the "out of the box thinking".

** Seamus on the other hand is the extreme right of the picture, "imagination" is an impossibility, for the same reason that OU is an impossibility. It is engrained into the core. An OU "Jihadist" using Wayne's words. Out of the box thinking is heresy.

From the viewpoint that OU is an impossibility, and is therefore a "out of the box" domain.
No "in the box" thinking is going to produce "out of the box" results.  Therefore "Out of the box thinking" is a pre-requisite to discover OU.  This is done by setting "out of the box requirements", that are resolved with "in the box" solutions.  This is the approach that will produce results. But this requires an "out of the box" thinking ability !! 

I think that this little exercise explains clearly why we are "at odds with each other" over the previous pages.
I duly respect your more conservative positions and that only a successful OU demonstration will entice you over the 100% demarcation line.
I have no problem to leave the "grand discussion" at that.

[see3d]

Gents,

There is a big difference in how different people are defining pre-charge.  In a ZED of the sort that has been replicated here, I think of it as the initial balance.  That is, what is needed to counterbalance the fixed weight of the riser, without any payload weight.  There is more than one way to create this initial balancing setup in a ZED, but this is a needed step for high efficiency operation.  Do not attack this as being a source of stored energy that can be consumed.  It is not, and it can't be for repeated cycles.

Some others are defining pre-charge as winding up a "spring" that can be used to supplement the losses in a running ZED.  The ZED will cycle until the "spring" runs down.  This is a legitimate target of inquiry.

Some complete systems talk about a pre-charged "spring" that is a temporary source of power to phase shift the generation of force at one point in the operation to application of that force at another point later on, but the pre-charge is restored on each cycle.  This is also a legitimate target of inquiry since it has the potential to start with a "spring" wound more than required to just phase shift the force.

It can be confusing when using the same term for all of the above.  Let's be clear about which we are talking about.

[TinselKoala]

Yes, I am talking about the initial precharge that Mister Wayne says his system does not consume and that will be there unchanged after an indefinitely long time self-running. When the machine stops, it is (according to Mister Wayne) NOT because this precharge has been depleted, but for some other reason.

This is in analogy to the spring in the automatic bollard system. The bollard weighs, say, 300 pounds. The spring is compressed with a force of 295 pounds. Thus it takes only 5 pounds (say) of upwards force to lift the bollard to the top, where it's pinned in place. When you are done with the bollard, you unpin it and its weight (effectively only 5 pounds) allows it to sink against its dashpot slowly back into the ground. This spring "winds up" and "winds down" reversibly and does its work "in secret", only needing the initial compression from its installation. Remove ONLY this spring from the automatic bollard and you cannot lift the bollard without applying the full 300 pounds of lift.

So the point of my proposed experiment is two-fold: Does the precharge in a properly prepared ZED help to lift the total weight of all the moving parts, in the same way that the compressed spring of the bollard does?  OR..... in contradiction to the claims of Mister Wayne.... does the precharge in a properly prepared and functioning Zed act as a _depletable_ power source like the wound up spring of a clock or the stored elevated water reservoir in my Heron's Fountain/TinselZed hybrid perpetual water pump?
Since we don't have a functioning Zed.. (Yet?) we can't ask the second question (yet?) but we ... or rather you guys with real systems... can see at least if the first part is answerable.

It seems that the builders are already prepared to acknowledge that, without the precharge setup, the system will require a "lot" more input in order to wind up lifting anything. Will you recover all this "lot" of more input as well, in a system that's not precharged? Doing the simple control experiment I've described, eliminating ONLY the precharge and starting with all water levels the same and the (sealed) chambers all at ambient pressure, to see how much "input" is needed to make the same lift of the same weight might shed some light on the system. It might even be possible to use results from this kind of good control experiment, compared with the "experimental" condition (precharged fully) to predict how long a system would run IF the precharge was not retained but was acting as a true power source, not like a bollard spring but like a clock mainspring. (remember those?)

------------------------

@Dale..... hey, all the big bits ended up in one pile and there's no wing damage... or broken bones. Therefore: Good Landing!! 
Nice looking ship too.

Since you like my astrophotography, here's one from last week.
This is the Sword of Orion, rising in the post-midnight sky. We see this with the naked eye as three fuzzy "stars" hanging from the belt of the great hunter Orion. In this image the "Running Man" nebula is on the left, the Great Nebula birthing its blue supergiant stars in the center, and the lovely multiple system called Nair al-Saif on the right.
This was done with the monochrome imager, making individual monochrome frames in R, G, B and L filters, then combining them in software to make the full color image. This represents about 90 minutes of total exposure, around 25 or 30 separate frames combined together, and a couple of hours of processing time the next day. This shot shows off the capabilities of the equipment a bit better than the Dumbbell image. This is a small jpeg for upload; the original .tiff output file is almost 3000 pixels wide and is 36 MB.
Equipment and workflow:
William Optics Megrez90 apo refractor on Celestron CGEM mount>TeleVue field flattener reducer giving around f/4.5>Meade CCD RGB filters>Orion Parsec 8300 monochrome astronomical imager, chip cooled to -15 C >Stark Labs Nebulosity for capture>PixInsightLE for processing>back to Nebulosity for final RGBL assembly>back to PixInsightLE for final tweaking and file format conversion.

Thanks for tolerating the offtopic astrophotos. I am in awe of the Universe, and ... it is all around us. We are stardust, created in explosions of old stars leaving gas and dust remnants like the Dumbbell, a planetary nebula leftover from a supernova or nova event, and gathered back together into stars and planets in systems like the Great Nebula in Orion, the birthplace of new stars.