PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?

[JouleSeeker]

Nul-pts:

Steven, apologies - your Ein calc method is good, but Pin needs units of seconds, not minutes]

Pin = 6.87/30 = 0.23mW

and Xee2 -- got it also, and others.

LOL - if you're wrong then at least two of us are!

...fortunately, i suspect we're both correct! 

You guys are indeed both correct, and I'm glad you are!  Yes, Watts = J/sec, of course.  I asked that someone check my math as I was rushing out the door, and you did -- and I thank you.

You both get A's on this  quiz.... 

Seriously, I do appreciate it.  And this means that the power input is really close to zero, at
Pin = 6.87J/30s = 0.23mW[/quote]

The mean power is close to zero as seen on both the Tek 3230 and my little ATTEN, as I've been saying-- you are correct about this also, LARRY-C, and thanks for noting the strong oscillating component in the input power also.  You got it right. 

(Pls be easy on .99 though, a fellow who has taught me some things patiently and who has been soaking up the rays in Hawaii.  He's back now.)

Now -- the LED on the output leg still lights up, though dimly... at 0.23mW input power...  hmmm...
I've repeated the measurement now several times at voltages between approx. 1.2 and 2 Vin from the cap...
Always the input power is in this small range, around 0.2 - .3 mW  input power...

There are three of us now in my small town working on this little circuit!  Bob is planning to increase Cb, slow the thing down, and see what happens.  All three of us have our own scopes, so this is getting fun...
BUT... it is still just "evidence for" OU at this stage, not a proof yet. I hope that is clear.

(PS -- I helped my expecting daughter most of the day, that's why I was slow in responding.  She's preparing for the baby coming soon!  proud grand-pa here...)

[WilbyInebriated]

Did you not see my post where I explained my desire to test the DMM method on Rose's oscillator?

yes. in point of fact i have seen you express this 'desire' several times over the last two months. i have yet to see you do so in actuality.

I've been on vacation away from my lab, so as far as getting it done since I've been working on this stuff, it's been quite impossible in the last three weeks. Finishing the sims and doing the technical walk-through is all I can do right now.

i'm not talking about the last three weeks... i am talking about the fact that YOU told us you would be working on it over the weekend... TWO MONTHS AGO. 

When I return and have a chance to get settled in (4 hour time difference) etc. I will get around to building the oscillator and making the tests, but I did not know you were assigned to be the schedule keeper and to hold everyone to their proposed offerings. If I choose to work on something else or nothing at all after I propose to do something (re. a couple months ago), that is my prerogative.

Is that quite alright with you my friend? 

.99

i am not your schedule keeper nor did i ever suggest i was... drop the gross hyperbole darren. what i am saying is don't go pimping your proposed method as 'golden' when it has NEVER been verified. what you choose to do IS your prerogative, so is making promises you don't keep i guess...

let me try saying that another way. put your money where your mouth is or don't open it.  is that clear enough my friend?


edit: congrats on the expected scion steven!

[JouleSeeker]

Thanks, Larry-C.

So I think we have a straightforward way to measure the input power Pin without an oscilloscope, using a cap and a stopwatch.

Measuring Pout will be more difficult.
On the output leg of the circuit, the voltage shows large swings, typically 12 V or so Vpp.  One could put a rectifier in this output leg, then charge a cap...  As long as that did not adversely affect the circuit performance.

I would replace the LED with a diode in the same direction, so that less power is dumped on the diode-LED, and more on the output Capacitor...  Wish I had more time for this, but I've a long-planned road trip coming up Thursday, so away from my home lab for about ten days at that point... sigh...  missing out on some of the fun here...

[poynt99]

yes. in point of fact i have seen you express this 'desire' several times over the last two months. i have yet to see you do so in actuality.

I've been busy on various things. If I change my mind and choose to do some other work or project, even after stating that I would work on something over the weekend, it's really not your concern, nor should you make it so.

i'm not talking about the last three weeks... i am talking about the fact that YOU told us you would be working on it over the weekend... TWO MONTHS AGO. 

I've been busy on various things. If I change my mind and choose to do some other work or project, even after stating that I would work on something over the weekend, it's really not your concern, nor should you make it so.

i am not your schedule keeper nor did i ever suggest i was...

Correct. You are however acting as if you are.

what i am saying is don't go pimping your proposed method as 'golden' when it has NEVER been verified.

Prove it has never been verified, then you may have some basis for your assertion.

what you choose to do IS your prerogative, so is making promises you don't keep i guess...

Prove that I used the word "promise". If I use the word "promise" then I will come through. Anything other than that and it will be as time permits.

let me try saying that another way. put your money where your mouth is or don't open it.  is that clear enough my friend?

Not sure what's gotten into you my friend, but when it comes to technical matters, I speak the truth the best I know it, and when I am wrong, I admit it. That won't ever change, so pipe up as often as you wish.

.99

[WilbyInebriated]

yeah my bad, you never actually used the word "promise" and i busted tk's balls once for doing the same thing to me so... mea culpa on that point. i'm sure you'll get it done sometime, you are a man of your word are you not? i guess i can understand how easy it is to get sidetracked by 'higher profile' threads and your no oscope measurement thread really didn't get the attention it deserved, here and at your site. it's elegantly simple, so i am as puzzled as you as to why so few noticed it. i was hoping you would be all over it seeing as how it would be a great procedure that would help a lot of people that didn't have access to expensive equipment make/take valid measurements. regardless, better late than never i guess.

@all
here is a gratuitous plug for poynt's thread: http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=10564
apologies for the interruption.

poynt, it's kind of buried in the 'Discussion board help and admin topics' forum, maybe you could talk stephan into placing it in a forum that gets a little more traffic? heck, i think it should be made a sticky thread when ( i almost said if... ) you actually verify it.