PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?

[JouleSeeker]

John Bedini has always stressed the importance of calculating energy in and out when calculating COP for his monopole motors and the like, so I don't see why the approach to measuring this circuit should be any different. I've built Stevens circuit and cannot get it anywhere close to self-running. Before anyone goes to the bother of calculating energy for this device, just let the battery run the device over a period of time because as with any Joule Thief type circuit, it will run right down over time and that's a certainty!

Hoppy

There are some basics that allow us to compare circuits, Hoppy.  I noted that I ran with a capacitor bank for the input energy, and found a power draw of about 0.23 mW, with the LED dimly lit.
Could you do the same with your replication, since we have these test data?  Very easy to do, just requires a good cap (non-leaky as possible) and a stop watch.  I took data over 30 seconds, as detailed above.

[Pirate88179]

Before anyone goes to the bother of calculating energy for this device, just let the battery run the device over a period of time because as with any Joule Thief type circuit, it will run right down over time and that's a certainty!

Hoppy

Some of them do not "Run right down" if you look at Gadgetmall's circuits...one of his JT designs will run over a year 24/7 on a single AA so that is a long time to test.  The ones I have made take months to run the battery down.

Just pointing this out is all.  None of my circuits with the JT were OU.

Bill

[prm]

Dr. Jones,

First of all I want to commend you for your courage in relation to your work on 9/11 and thermite.  Second, I think you also have courage, being a "main-stream" scientist with impressive credentials, and yet, you have an open mind about the possibility of alternative energy sources.  Would that more scientists like you would be willing to stick their necks out in exploring new avenues.

The present condition of main-stream science with its peer-review system and entrenched dogmatism is anti-science in my opinion.  It stifles advancement. The main-stream stance implies they know everything there is to know about the laws of nature and they don't need to investigate any new idea.  A quick reading of science history shows how absurd this position is.

Concerning your circuit.  The measurement methodology is the nagging issue here, as you are well aware of.  Debate over this can go on forever.  In my opinion the best way to "prove" a new technology is to take the prototype out of the chalk-board realm and into the real world.  If there is energy gain going on, then as suggested by others, you should be able to feedback a small portion of the output back into the input to make the circuit action self-sustaining.  This is where the rubber meets the road.  After all, the circuit would have to do this if it were to be of any innovative and commerical value.

As to the energy source, if you believe the zpe is real, then its an issue of tapping that energy through electro-magnetic means.  Who knows, there might be a way.

Incidently, you may remember me or not.  I was the individual who contacted you a few years ago about an experiment I was doing with inertia and the zpe.  Since then, I have done an experiment, using a high-speed video camera, that shows the speed of the center of mass of the system increases.  By Euler's First Law and the conservation of momentum, this can only happen if an external force acts on a system.  The external force was inertia.

I plan to post the results of this experiment in the future on this website. Since this thread is not about this experiment I will only say if you are interested, you can send me a private message.

As far as your circuit, I hope it turns out that you are tapping some energy source that has previously been ignored.

[Hoppy]

Some of them do not "Run right down" if you look at Gadgetmall's circuits...one of his JT designs will run over a year 24/7 on a single AA so that is a long time to test.  The ones I have made take months to run the battery down.

Just pointing this out is all.  None of my circuits with the JT were OU.

Bill

A small battery powering a Joule Thief with LED load can indeed take months to run down to a point where the LED extinguishes. Puekert's Law also works in reverse in that the virtual capacity of a battery will greatly increase as the current drawn form a battery reduces significantly below the manufacturers discharge ratings. Studying battery discharge curves at sub C40 rates is an eye opener and something that all Bedini enthusiats should study before reaching conclusions about COP.

Hoppy

[JouleSeeker]

Thank you for the succinct summary, jmmac:

prm,

As I understand it:

- In the original circuit with battery, Dr. Jones used his digital oscilloscope to calculate the mean instantaneous power in and out. The instantaneous power: P(t) = I(t) * U(t) which changes over time. If you calculate the average of that instantaneous power over several cycles, you have a good measurement of the true power (oscilloscope measures current and voltage over time and multiplies the 2, then calculates the mean).
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In conclusion: calculating mean instantaneous power over a period of time is equivalent to measuring the energy. Power is Work (Energy) by unit of time.

- In the experiment powered by the large capacitor, the energy came from that capacitor and you can calculate the total energy it contains knowing the capacity and it's voltage. Knowing the initial and final voltage of the capacitor and the amount of time it was connected to the circuit, you can calculate the energy it gave to the circuit in that time and the mean power. That value was calculated and is very small.

Regards,
Jaime