PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?

[NickZ]

  This is the link to Koolers video:  two 5 month running BWJT:
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dplIIhCbMcE
   
   Yes, I am saying the beach sand cement cells run....  well forever is a long time,   but they run similar to solar cells.
   My beach sand cells will not add or increase in current when connected in parallel. Each cells outputs 1.2 to 1.5 volts, and 50 to 65mA. and can be connected in series to get the needed voltage. 
   To connect the above BWJT to these cement cells in my current goal.  But it may not be needed as these battery cells can connect direct to the leds, at 4v or 12volts or higher...

[JouleSeeker]

Thanks, Kooler...  I appreciate the link.  where is your beach sand cement cell further described?  would appreciate it!

Now back to the relativity puzzle;

"We send a pulsed current through A and (with time delay as shown) through B.  A "positive current pulse" is such that a North pole points to the right, a negative current pulse generates a North pole pointing left.  When the first + pulse goes through A, B is off.  But as the field from A arrives, B switches on with a negative pulse and thus is REPELLED, pushed to the right.  We can end the thought experiment there, with A turned off now and so feels no effects, while loop B (free to move) travels to the right.  There is motion to the right only, which does not conserve momentum... Can you find an error?

But we can go on and get loop A to move also.  The field from B travels back towards A and when it arrives 0.1 ns later, A has a negative pulse and so is pulled to the right and begins to move right.  THAT field from A propagates at the speed of light towards B... which is pushed to the right when it arrives, and so on.
Thus, the whole "system" moves to the right (one can connect the loops on a platform, or a space-ship , with an apparent violation of conservation of momentum...
I haven't found the error if there is one...  let me know why this won't work.  Thanks.   

I can't believe this would work ...
But if it did... following some experiments certainly...

Then, I would arrange the loops (small, short-wire coils probably) into a wheel, and let the push-pull described above generate circular motion -- There's your motor, to drive a generator or a car...  you see where this could lead.. 

[xee2]

Consider two loops of wire facing each other, A and B, 3 cm apart as shown in the attached.  We're going to use the fact that magnetic fields  propagate at the speed of light so that it takes time for the field generated in A to reach B, and vice versa,
t = 3cm/3X10**10cm/s = 0.1 nanosecond (ns) for a field generated at A by a current pulse to reach B. 

Sure, edge effects, etc. -- I'm not worrying about those, yet.

We send a pulsed current through A and (with time delay as shown) through B.  A "positive current pulse" is such that a North pole points to the right, a negative current pulse generates a North pole pointing left.  When the first + pulse goes through A, B is off.  But as the field from A arrives, B switches on with a negative pulse and thus is REPELLED, pushed to the right.  We can end the thought experiment there, with A turned off now and so feels no effects, while loop B (free to move) travels to the right.  There is motion to the right only, which does not conserve momentum... Can you find an error?

But we can go on and get loop A to move also.  The field from B travels back towards A and when it arrives 0.1 ns later, A has a negative pulse and so is pulled to the right and begins to move right.  THAT field from A propagates at the speed of light towards B... which is pushed to the right when it arrives, and so on.
Thus, the whole "system" moves to the right (one can connect the loops on a platform, or a space-ship , with an apparent violation of conservation of momentum...

I haven't found the error if there is one...  let me know why this won't work.  Thanks.   

Accepted answer is Feynman's virtual photons traveling backwards in time, which I am sure you have studied. Personally, I think this is nonsense. But that is the official explaination.

[gyulasun]

Hi Steven,

Interesting setup you show.  My first thought is whether a EM field or (to be more precise) rather in your example a "magnetic flux packet" is able to exert a similar force to a like pole when the source is switched off and left on its own?  I am not sure in a positive answer for this.  If I think of loop A as an kind of antenna, then it can sure emit an EM wave and this wave will travel by known laws (believed) valid in practice, regardless of the fact that you switch off the source, i.e. a transmitter feeding a loop  A.  However, to utilize input power for radiation with high efficiency you have to use very high frequency (well into the microwaves) to get a practical loop size for a motor or generator-like setup. I believe nano technology may help here.

Can we ask your problem like this:
  How quickly the magnetic flux field gets diminished to say zero from the moment you switch an electromagnet off? Does it diminish to zero at the speed of the light too?
  And if you launch a pulse into the loop whose frequency corresponds to the physical sizes of the loop (loops mainly work with good radiation efficiency with a perimeter very near to a full wavelength) then you are forced to work in the microwave bands, this is why I mentioned nano technology.

What do you (or anyone else) think?

rgds,  Gyula

Consider two loops of wire facing each other, A and B, 3 cm apart as shown in the attached.  We're going to use the fact that magnetic fields  propagate at the speed of light so that it takes time for the field generated in A to reach B, and vice versa,
t = 3cm/3X10**10cm/s = 0.1 nanosecond (ns) for a field generated at A by a current pulse to reach B. 

Sure, edge effects, etc. -- I'm not worrying about those, yet.

We send a pulsed current through A and (with time delay as shown) through B.  A "positive current pulse" is such that a North pole points to the right, a negative current pulse generates a North pole pointing left.  When the first + pulse goes through A, B is off.  But as the field from A arrives, B switches on with a negative pulse and thus is REPELLED, pushed to the right.  We can end the thought experiment there, with A turned off now and so feels no effects, while loop B (free to move) travels to the right.  There is motion to the right only, which does not conserve momentum... Can you find an error?

But we can go on and get loop A to move also.  The field from B travels back towards A and when it arrives 0.1 ns later, A has a negative pulse and so is pulled to the right and begins to move right.  THAT field from A propagates at the speed of light towards B... which is pushed to the right when it arrives, and so on.
Thus, the whole "system" moves to the right (one can connect the loops on a platform, or a space-ship , with an apparent violation of conservation of momentum...

I haven't found the error if there is one...  let me know why this won't work.  Thanks.   

[jmmac]

Hi Professor,

This is a bit too much for me but interesting... 2 questions:

- The conservation of moment must happen in 'real time' or is it possible to have delays because of the propagation times?

- In the setup you described and considering only one pulse: that current pulse in loop A produces a magnetic pulse, it travels to B,  induces a current pulse in loop B, the current pulse in B produces an opposing magnetic field and makes B move to the right. Will that opposing magnetic field pulse produced by loop B travel to A and produce a similar effect, moving A to the left?

Regards,
Jaime

[...]
Meanwhile, this weekend I have been puzzling over a relativity puzzle.  Also a lot of fun, and a mental challenge.  At a conference a week ago, a fellow posed a question and I've modified it so that now it looks like a real puzzle, in that momentum conservation appears to be violated...  which "cannot happen".
OK, so show me what's wrong.  I like to pose puzzles like this to other scientists, and if any of you have answers, pls let me know.  I admit haven't found an answer yet... and somehow, it MIGHT relate to what we're doing here.  Of course, at present its a thought-experiment, not done physically yet...
[...]