PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?

[JimU]

If the action were INSTANTANEOUS, instead of limited by the speed of light, we would not have this conundrum...  But it is an important effect, the limit imposed by the speed of light.  (Thanks Albert!)

I've seen credible arguments that near-field, that is the non-radiated field, actually may have instantaneous effect, or at least not limited to "c".  Perhaps some experiments as well.  Should be a do-able experiment with the very high-speed scopes available today.

Jim

[JouleSeeker]

Hi JouleSeeker,
The other thing I thought of is that the spike voltage will be suppressed to a degree by the output capacitor and this may be pulling down your output gain.
So the effect could rely on the sudden surge and capturing it would be a real challenge.
One way may be a synchronized switch using a mosfet that cuts in near the peak of the spike, perhaps using the "avalanche" process. Then dump this into a capacitor.

You have a good point -- the "capture" of output energy on a cap may be affecting the operation of the circuit.  I'm also looking into use of a thermal wattmeter in lieu of the output cap -- it may be able to measure Pout without affecting the operation (or at least, in a different way).   
Whew!  a simple circuit, but not so easy as it looks.  I'm still amazed that with so little input power, Pin<1mW typically, the LED lights so well.

[JouleSeeker]

I've seen credible arguments that near-field, that is the non-radiated field, actually may have instantaneous effect, or at least not limited to "c".  Perhaps some experiments as well.  Should be a do-able experiment with the very high-speed scopes available today.

Jim

Welcome, JimU! 
  I would like to see those arguments. 
Very interesting:  " the non-radiated field, actually may have instantaneous effect, or at least not limited to "c".  Perhaps some experiments as well.  "

Any references or URL's? 
Not limited to "c" will have remarkable effects, indeed.  An "instantaneous effect" would explain the puzzle, not in the way I expected certainly.

Come back, Jim!   Beam me up!

[nul-points]

 
hello Steven

here's some data from an experiment which is certainly NOT moving anywhere near lightspeed!


first i should just stress again that these results may just turn out eventually to represent the 'battery relaxation' phenomenon (which i've seen in many previous experiments) - i'm just sharing the data here to keep you posted with progress on my current test

the graph below represents the terminal voltage, recorded over the last 7 days, for a single AAA NiMH cell which is powering my inverted, looped SJ1 circuit with supply interruption**

** the immediate supply to my SJ1 variant oscillator circuit is a 2200uF capacitor - whenever the oscillator o/p stops, the capacitor gets a momentary re-charge from the NiMH cell via a transistor switch

the oscillator o/p (from a tertiary winding) is fed back to the oscillator supply and to the NiMH cell, and is also used to gate the supply interruption switch

the trace below shows a typical output 'pulse burst' (here measured at the anode of the schottky diode i/p to the NiMH cell) - a group of around 3 of these pulse bursts are occurring within approx 100-300ms, the group being repeated at an interval of approx 1 second

so the average number of pulses per second is approx 15

the first pulse width is approx 30uS, its coil-collapse width approx 25uS;
schottky diodes are limiting the coil-collapse voltage peaks  to approx 560mV above the cell voltage (voltage values  obtained with  x10 probe)


i'll update after another week - or earlier, if the cell voltage starts to decrease

thanks
np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com

[JimU]

  I would like to see those arguments. 
Very interesting:  " the non-radiated field, actually may have instantaneous effect, or at least not limited to "c".  Perhaps some experiments as well.  "

Any references or URL's? 
Not limited to "c" will have remarkable effects, indeed.  An "instantaneous effect" would explain the puzzle, not in the way I expected certainly.

I'm working from memory, but I think Phipps in his book "Heretical Verities" analyzes an experiment by Hill, where Phipps makes the argument that the result in question would imply that near-fields have instantaneous effect, as one example.  I'll keep digging into my memory on this...

Best,    Jim