PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?

[ElectroGravityPhysics.com]

Also, please note that your reported Pinput of 110mW is MUCH higher than what I've found in my original circuits (typically <15mW, and down to a few microwatts).

@JouleSeeker:  UPDATE!

Thanks for your suggestion about the abnormally HIGH power consumption, on the input. 

I went back to the test bench and found a sweet spot around 2.0 VDC from the lab-power supply, with a 47uF decoupling capacitor on the +V and -V rails on the breadboard.  The power consumption is only 2.0 mW (!), with the LED just faintly on - at this voltage.

It seems like the circuit latches into a high power consumption mode when the input power is more than 2.5 V.  I can suddenly notice the LED light when is goes from dim to very bright when I slowly turn the power voltage up from 2.0 to 2.5 volts.

I am confident the input power calculation is accurate, since the DC voltage has such a small ripple with the decoupling capacitor even though the current is AC dominated.

The output calculation shows 8.6 mW (!), yet I know this is much more than the input power of 2.0 mW.  I am using the inaccurate RMS calculation method for this measurement, but even so this RMS measurement is something new and exciting I have never seen before.

We all know the RMS method is not reliable - for an out of phase voltage and current, but at least I NOW have something to investigate further to make some more accurate measurements - that includes corrections for the phase between voltage and current on the output.

I am using the ATTEN digital storage scope, which I think is the same as in your youtube video.  In your video you mention that you manually integrated the U*I curves.  Did you just eyeball it directly on the scope - with a piece of paper, or did you download the a scope measurement via the USB cable to your computer?  Please give me some more information on how you did this so I can replicate it.

I am now encouraged to try to cap/time measurement method, as well.

Let me know your thoughts.

-Nils

[JouleSeeker]

Thanks for your comments on the Moray device, and for this, EGP:

@JouleSeeker:  UPDATE!

Thanks for your suggestion about the abnormally HIGH power consumption, on the input. 

I went back to the test bench and found a sweet spot around 2.0 VDC from the lab-power supply, with a 47uF decoupling capacitor on the +V and -V rails on the breadboard.  The power consumption is only 2.0 mW (!), with the LED just faintly on - at this voltage.

It seems like the circuit latches into a high power consumption mode when the input power is more than 2.5 V.  I can suddenly notice the LED light when is goes from dim to very bright when I slowly turn the power voltage up from 2.0 to 2.5 volts.

I am confident the input power calculation is accurate, since the DC voltage has such a small ripple with the decoupling capacitor even though the current is AC dominated.

The output calculation shows 8.6 mW (!), yet I know this is much more than the input power of 2.0 mW. I am using the inaccurate RMS calculation method for this measurement, but even so this RMS measurement is something new and exciting I have never seen before.

We all know the RMS method is not reliable - for an out of phase voltage and current, but at least I NOW have something to investigate further to make some more accurate measurements - that includes corrections for the phase between voltage and current on the output.

I am using the ATTEN digital storage scope, which I think is the same as in your youtube video.  In your video you mention that you manually integrated the U*I curves. Did you just eyeball it directly on the scope - with a piece of paper, or did you download the a scope measurement via the USB cable to your computer?  Please give me some more information on how you did this so I can replicate it.

I am now encouraged to try to cap/time measurement method, as well.

Let me know your thoughts.

-Nils

Alright-- progress.  Yes, I noted a reduction in power consumption at a critical voltage also...  and it depends on the R value, in series with the LED.

Yes, I used an ATTEN DSO, using its math-multiply function to get the instantaneous POWER waveform.  (From P(t) =V(t) * I(t),  where I = V/1ohm, that is, voltage drop across a 1-ohm CSR) 

What I did is to carefully trace the power waveform for one cycle with respect to time, for input and output Powers.  Next I integrated the area under the curves by hand, not too difficult, then n = Eout/Ein (for one complete cycle).

[JimU]

The earlier topic of bifilar-wound electromagnets having larger strength fields (as seen in their ability to pick up more items) has really caught my attention, since it would seem to indicate new physics.  I'm speaking now of the DC current case, not to mention the equally interesting AC case per the referenced Oliver Nichelson paper.

In the DC case,presumably the same current flows in the wire (should be measured) for bifilar and single-filar winding, so how could a bifilar winding affect magnetic field strength, since E-M would say the solenoid should produce the same magnetic field and induce the same strength magnetic field in the magnetic core (such as an iron rod).

Assuming a single-layer bifilar winding, adjacent windings have a larger voltage drop and thus electric field between them - per Tesla's patent - than a single-filar standard winding.  And the bifilar electric field changes direction 180-degrees stepping from adjacent wire to wire.

Could this between-wire back-and-forth electric field condition the magnetic core metal in some to-be-explained manner and cause it to respond to the overall winding field more strongly?

Alternatively, perhaps this static between-wire alternating-polarity electric field conditions the current electrons or wire lattice atoms in a way to affect the strength of the field induced in the magnetic core?

In any case, fascinating to see potential new physics from a "lowly" electromagnet!  Very worth of further experiments.

Regards,       Jim

[JouleSeeker]

The earlier topic of bifilar-wound electromagnets having larger strength fields (as seen in their ability to pick up more items) has really caught my attention, since it would seem to indicate new physics.  I'm speaking now of the DC current case, not to mention the equally interesting AC case per the referenced Oliver Nichelson paper.

In the DC case,presumably the same current flows in the wire (should be measured) for bifilar and single-filar winding, so how could a bifilar winding affect magnetic field strength, since E-M would say the solenoid should produce the same magnetic field and induce the same strength magnetic field in the magnetic core (such as an iron rod).
[snip for brevity]

In any case, fascinating to see potential new physics from a "lowly" electromagnet!  Very worth of further experiments.

Regards,       Jim

I agree, Jim.  To be certain of the same current, I suggest ONE power source and run the DC current through BOTH coils (bifilar and single-wound) at the same time.  This will guarantee that both have the same current.

Of course, one must count the windings to make sure that both have the same total number of windings.  And finally, both must have identical cores (air cores would make a nice test). 

Then "physics" says that the B-fields must be the same.  But in my "simple" experiments, picking up paper clips and screws, the strengths were not the same.

My last trip to the university near my home, I contacted a colleague who has a means of measuring B-fields (uses a Hall probe) quantitatively.  That's what is needed here IMO.  These experiments will have to wait - for me- for a few weeks till I get back home from the family trip...

But if anyone else wishes to do the experiments -- please do!  and kindly report results here.  Lots of fun, and as you say, Jim -- surprising Physics if we can confirm the effect with
1.  Repeatability
2.  Quantitative results
then 3.  Try to understand the "new"? physics.

It may be that these simple experiments will lead to an understanding !

[NextGen67]

Thanks for comments!

Thanks for your experimental results, Neptune.  Very interesting that different tries give different results, with bifilar B-field strength always greater than single-wound. 

@Neptune and @Xee2:  Note that in the report posted above, with actual measurements of inductance in the two windings, the inductances are nearly the same:
208 and 205 uH. 
So I don't think that a small variation in inductance is what is causing this large observed difference in B-field strength.

Actually (Xee2), the single-wound had the higher L (so your explanation appears to fail).

@Pirate: 
I'm inclined to agree, based on the empirical results we're seeing! 
Lot's to understand in this simple experiment (above).

A bit slow reply here, but I'm way behind on catching up due to busy times here.

The single wound core has an Capacitance of 0.34 pF, while the bifilar wound one has a capacitance of 1.02 pf (three times as much).

This indicates that besides current, the bifilar coil stores 3 times more voltage field (potential field).

This could mean that although we seem to input the same amount of current, the bifilar is acting like to charge a -larger- 1.02 pF capacitor, and thus would ' in a time-varying way ' use more energy momentarily.

Nevertheless, after being charged, there appears to be more B-field strength with the bifilar style wind.

Possible reasons:
-------------------

1) The domains in the material (nail) might get a 'harder' turn than in a conventional way, resulting in a more uniform shape and as such result in a higher B-field strength ?
2) The potential field tension is able to -help- increase the B-field strength (this would be contrary to the belief that -only- current is responsible for the buildup of a magnetic field) ?
3) It takes time for the 'electricity' (magnetic field) to go from start to end of the wire.... in the bifilar wind, the first wind of the series, induces an emf in the second wind of the series. This induced emf might increase B-field strength ?
4) I'm sure there might be a few more scenarios to think of ?

For each of the above, there could be thought of a test to find out which of them could be causing said effect.

I will come back on this on a later point of time when I have some spare time, and share my results.
I'm inclined to believe case #2 has some ground to be true, as I have done some tests before like these.

In any case, the bifilar wind takes more energy during the saturation buildup  time of the coil. (Do the nails test again, and wind an extra different wind on the nail and connect a scope with single shot on it).  To make it more interesting, do it again, but now use straws instead of nails :-)

@jouleseeker: Did you receive my personal message?

--
NextGen67