4X3 Permanent Magnet Motor concept

[jake]

I have a philosophical  question:

Would the world be better off with a permanent magnet motor that self-ran, but was so delicate, it could produce no work,

Or, a cheap to make, compact pulse motor, that could be retro-fitted to the front wheel of a bicycle, and maybe give you a range of 75 miles instead of 20 miles?  How many consumer/commuters would choose the latter?

Maybe the pulse mode is the way to go!

I vote for the second.  The journey to #2 could very well lead to #1.  With a constant focus on overunity, no matter how small, we go nowhere.  If we have a goal we might reach, we make a step toward big gains.

If you produce a motor that is, let's say, 1w overunity, you would have to multiply by 1,000,000 to get 1 megawatt.  It may be impossible to construct something so large.  A motor that is barely overunity is arguably of little practical use if it can do little more than turn itself.

This is why I am trying to form a group of people to work toward a vehicle propulsion motor that would possibly do as you suggest - make the same car go much farther with the same energy input.  This would be a more useful device that a wheel that can spin itself and light one LED extra, for example.  And it is a reachable goal that might allow us to learn how to get to the overunity goal.

[nightwynd]

If the motor is cogging at a certain point, perhaps you could use another property of matter that many here seem to forget: inertia. Hook up an electric motor to this one, get it spinning as fast as you safely can without the magnets flying apart. Would the weight of the rotor arm give it enough inertial push to get it past the cog point and accelerate fast enough to the next one to actually increase its speed?

[tishatang]

This design would benefit by the use of inertia.

I was going to build my prototype by using a square piece of plywood 18 inches on a side with a 12 inch cirle cut out in the middle.  The plywood would be 1/2 thick.  I would use a router and cut a hollow groove inside the circle to hold the vinyl hose with the magnets inside.  3/8 ths magnets plus the thickness of the hose would be about 1/2 inch to equal the thickness of the plywood.

For the rotor, I would use two pieces of plastic cutting boards you can buy at Wal-Mart and cut out two 12 in circles.   With a spacer and some shims for width, I would attach the rotor magnets to the inside of the rotor discs.

I was going to use an automotive alternator to attach the rotor to.  This would give me strong smooth running bearings and a shaft that was disigned for a pulley (rotor) to be attached to.  If it ran, it would also generate some current since it is an alternator.  I don't know if modern alternators will motor.  That way you could attach a battery and spin the rotor up to speed.  If you can find an early alternator, they had permanent magnet fields, and should motor?  Of course, if you could just use a PM DC motor if you had one.

Once up to speed, you could disconnect the battery and see of it self-runs.  If so, you now have a built-in generator to measure output.

The piece of plywood could be notched to accomodate solenoids if you decide to make it into a pulse motor.

Tishatang

[Gregory]

You would probably need special iron
cores to get this motor to work.
Just with magnets it will not work,
simular designs we had already tested years
ago...

Thanks for the tip, Stefan. Let me see... What is the usability of these special iron cores? I can wind them up, and use as an electromagnet... or maybe for special shielding... and What more? How can I use them to make things going?

If you produce a motor that is, let's say, 1w overunity, you would have to multiply by 1,000,000 to get 1 megawatt.  It may be impossible to construct something so large.  A motor that is barely overunity is arguably of little practical use if it can do little more than turn itself.

Jake. I agree with you in this. I can agree with you easily, and understand your viewpoint, but I think you still missing something:
Once you have a self-running permanent magnetic toy, You can perfect it, and re-desing in a better way to make a useful device. And this spinning toy can be the best starting point to create the most efficient pulse motor of the world, isn't it? Maybe one day you not need to recharge the batteries of your newest device anymore, just drive the car... Now, it's only a "stupid dream", but nobody of us know everything, wich is possible... and Nobody of us understand and see through everything...

Nightwynd.
I didn't forget inertia, but yes it is usually a forgotten property. Thanks for the reminder.
I tested another setup. My design actually uses a little inertia, because it can't start by itself. Normally it is in balance. But when I push through one sticky spot, or just push back enough, the wheel spin through 2 sticky spots, and stop at the third, where it started, and where in balance. Now the geometry is still broken, and I can't close it, because the proportion seem to be wrong. But looks interesting when it spins through 2 attractive sticky spots, where normally magnets want to stop. I will do tests with it few more days, need to test all of my ideas very carefully. After I try to design and make it in the right form. I think maybe it can be something, what has partly similar effect as the eyewitnesses said about Bessler's last two wheel. It is normally in balance, so it has weaker balanced points on smaller areas, and stronger overbalanced points on larger areas... Once you push on a little, it begin to spin and can't stop without outsider influence. I think it is possible somehow. Sorry to mention Bessler...  But I observed this similarity.

Tishatang. Hope you enjoy to work with your design! 
Please post some words about your results, after you tested it properly. I intersted what happens at the cog points.

Thanks,
Greg

[jake]

For any device to be useful, it must produce a lot of torque.  Most of the OU designs are vain attempts to get something to just rotate itself.  I see little value in this objective.  Step back and be objective, and look at how many examples there are of "I'm almost there" when you go through these forums.  There have been many brilliant people spend lifetimes trying to get a perfectly balanced wheel to be perpetually out of balance, or a force balanced magnetic contraption to rotate forever.  The device always wins.  It quickly or slowly relaxes into its equalibrium and sits there.

I find it unreasonable to think that any magnetic device without some outside stimulus will keep rotating.  It is the equivalent of thinking that some kind of gravity wheel will keep rotating.  The forces are balanced at some point (or all points) in the rotation in all these devices.  When the forces are balanced the device will not move.  You must disturb the equalibrium to cause motion.

As for magnetic devices with outside stimulation, I find it reasonable to think that there may be a chance to find COP>1.  It could be that the outside stimulus will tap in to some unknown and allow a COP > 1.

I will not entertain designs that include magnets only (no outside stimulus such as coils, etc.).  I believe it to be unreasonable to think that any magnet only device will produce any positive results.  Same goes for gravity only devices (gravity wheels, etc.) with no outside stimulus.  I would eliminate gravity-magnetic combinations for the same reason.  There is always equalibrium in these devices.

It should be intuitively obvious to a person with a minimal understanding of physics that gravity wheels will not work.  It should be just as obvious that magnet only devices will not work.  The magnets act as static forces, and a simple force analysis will expose that they can't work.

If you add electrically stimulated coils, I don't think the situation is hopeless.  The coils can cause disturbances to the otherwise static forces and provide the necessary stimulation to make the device actually rotate (Kundel, for example).  The trick is to shock the system in some way that taps into the undefined forces to create to COP > 1 that we are looking for.  Perhaps some kind of high voltage zap will cause the system to grab energy from the ether, or whatever.

But, as for me, I will not invest time in any gravity only, magnet only, or gravity-magnet device that doesn't have some other stimulation mechanism.  It is unreasonable to believe any such device will work - in my opinion.  In fact, there is some evidence to believe that when a magnet only device appears to work, the magnets deplete without explanation, and the device slowly stops - I have seen at least two reported cases of this on this site.

This leads me to believe that, ironically, if you figure out a way to get "power" from magnets, the magnets appear to deplete. (once again the second law wins)

If someone credibly and openly demonstrates otherwise, in a manner that is easily and widely reproduced, I will be most happy to say I was wrong.  Until then, my money and effort goes toward a more efficient, lighter, more powerful motor as the first objective - because it is reasonable to believe it can be done, and it has great benefits immediately.