Idea for a selfpowered steam engine

[Low-Q]

Hi,

I have an idea about a selfpowered steam engine. We have a cylinder with a piston with very high compression rate. The compression must be so high that the air inside the cylinder reach a few hundereds degrees celcius at maximum compression. This heat will vaporize water which is injected by a tiny nebulizer nozzle. The tiny nozzle will face a counterpressure, but the total area inside the cylinder is much greater, so the energy required to pump water into the cylinder is far less than the energy that the area inside the cylinder, together with the pressure, is acting towards the piston.

The water will be injected when the temperature and the pressure is greatest - when the piston is on the very top.

Maybe a high power spark plug could assist the startup to fire "water arcs", but as the cylinder gets hotter, the efficiency of the engine will increase, and the spark plug is shut off.

This is a motor which does not violate the laws of thermodynamics. It will harness the potential temperature difference between the surroundings and the engine in a very efficient way because all the losses will heat the engine rapidly rather than cooling it down. This heat is what I need to run the engine. The more heat, the faster it goes.

Water will be prevented to vaporize under high pressure, but the rapidly increased heat inside the cylinder will compensate and vaporize the water anyways. The cylinder is insolated, so heat can build up without loosing heat energy to the surroundings. That is the key for this motor to run.

I have no idea if water alone will work, but I do know that many gasoline engines injects water into the cylinder to increase efficiency by up to 30% extra.

At least this is the idea.

You're welcome to make comments and ideas for improvements. Questioning this design is ofcourse allowed too

Br.

Vidar

[core]

  You are going to have your hands full with this one. A couple of points if you will. A positive displacement pump (compressor) is a vapor pump and only a vapor pump. Any attempt to pump a liquid will end with catastrophic results, liquid always wins. In your case an atomizing nozzle should be used such as a 'oil burner nozzle'. In order to atomize the water(vapor), prior to compressing, the water will have to be pressurized to be forced through the nozzle. Here you will have to use a 'rotary' pump.

  The drawing is incorrect. Your exhaust gas, as shown, are already at a 'low pressure/low temperature' state. By the time the piston reaches B.D.C (Bottom Dead Center) a pressure drop and a resulting temperature drop has been created. In order to achieve a 'High' pressure/High temperature output the exhaust valve must open when the piston is at T.D.C. It should be noted that combustion should take place a few degree's prior to T.D.C on the flywheel.

  By no means am I discrediting your idea. OU devices come in two flavors mechanical and electrical. I am of the frame of mind that mechanical devices require greater skills. Others may disagree with that statement.

  Some ideas for you. There is a lot of power to be had when a liquid under pressure is Violently introduced to a low pressure area. An example of this power can be seen when a boiler explodes. Boiler explosions have nothing to do with gas. Boilers explode when high pressure water meets with atmospheric pressure. Water at sea level with boil at 212 Deg. F. When a liquid is pressurized its boiling temperature increases. So water under 200 psig will not boil at 212 Deg. F but higher, much higher. When this water, at high pressure/high temperature comes in contact with atmospheric pressure Low Temperature/low pressure the water will try to BOIL off instantaneously.

  So your device should be centered around the phase change of a liquid. The density of a liquid is greater then the density of its vapor state. Its volume is the reciprocal of its density. In a boiler the vessel size(its volume) is a fixed value. When the water rapidly boils off its volume increases, the vessel expands to the breaking point until rupture. This typically sends a boiler weighing many tons flying through the air like a missile.

   So if you can harness this raw power you will win. Be very careful you do not want to be anywhere near an exploding vessel regardless of its size. Good Luck I will try to help the best I can.

Respectfully,

Core     

[havuhung]

Hi All @Low-Q,

Personally I think your idea can best test of a two-stroke diesel engine with the following changes: The top end of the piston, compressing the fuel pump of the engine instead of fuel injection is oil into the combustion chamber, now you use it to spray the water as your proposed idea. From here you can see the results.  (Water does not burn like oil is a certainty, but may be a sudden large increase in volume when water turns from liquid to gaseous form at high temperatures will have on energy efficiency. It just idea!)

Sincerely,

havuhung

[Low-Q]

Thanks for yout input. It will be taken into consideration. Hot water under great pressure is dangerous.

Let us assume there is 1milligram water fog injected into the cylinder. The piston is at T.D.C, so there is great pressure inside. Also the cylinder is very hot, so even if the pressure would stop the water from vaporizing, the high temperature would allow it to. Then those milligrams of water that turn into vapor will require much greater space, and it will push the piston down to B.D.C.

If your point made sense to me, you say that the water will not vaporize anyways. It will also require great force to inject water into a high pressure chamber. Or am I totaly mistaking your point You want me to feed the cylinder with vapor, just as an ordinary steam engine, right? So the exhaust should exit at T.D.C?

I was thinking that the engine would need help the first few thousand cycles, but after those cycles the temperature in the engine would be very high. The water pressure between the pump and the nozzle would be greater than the pressure inside the cylinder. Else there would not be possible to pump water inside. However, the injection part takes maybe just a few micro seconds, so there is minimal of energy applied to inject the water. I would also use a pump which is pulsating and not be a pump which maintained this high water pressure all the time. How to find or make such a pump, I don't know.
A one way valve is used to prevent the pressure inside the cylinder to escape through the water nozzle.

Regarding the drawing, it would sertanly need some modifications, but I did not fully understood how the design should be changed, and for what reason. Even if the vapor has lower pressure right before it exits the exhaust outlet, its required space should be grater than the maximum cylinder volume. The cylinder walls and the piston is still warm (>100 deg.C) so the vapor will be vapor untill the pressure fully releases when the piston is at B.D.C?

I also know that I am a noob when it comes to steam engines in general even if I know the principals of an old fashion steam engine.
I have not the total understanding of the relationship between temperature, pressure, vaporation, condensation, and how these factors plays with eachother.

I don't get it, do I?

Vidar

[Low-Q]

Hi All @Low-Q,

Personally I think your idea can best test of a two-stroke diesel engine with the following changes: The top end of the piston, compressing the fuel pump of the engine instead of fuel injection is oil into the combustion chamber, now you use it to spray the water as your proposed idea. From here you can see the results.  (Water does not burn like oil is a certainty, but may be a sudden large increase in volume when water turns from liquid to gaseous form at high temperatures will have on energy efficiency. It just idea!)

Sincerely,

havuhung

This is exactly my thoughts too. Water does not burn, but it can change from liquid to vapor with heat. The question is just: Is it possible with this design?
This engine must allmost glow in order to vaporize water under such high pressure...

Vidar