Was Bessler for real?

[johnny874]

   Tom,
The drawing I did shows a single oscillation pendulum.
When the pendulum starts to swing, it lifts the scissors on
it's 2 outer points. The fulcrum acts as a hoist lifting the
scissors closed.When the fulcrum releases the weight, it
rotates the drum which also causes the fulcrum to rotate
quicker.
In theory, if the scissor is lifted 5 cm's (2 inches), it will
close twice that height. Since it is mechanical, even a 1.5:1
ratio should keep it swinging.
Where the 2 lines curve to the right from the scissor would be pulleys.
And also when the line turns up to the fulcrum. And by knowing when
something needs to engage and disengage, it will help to fill in the details.
Also, a stopping block may be needed. The pendulum will only need to
swing so much to work. And what might be missed is that acceleration is
caused by the vertical drop. That's gravity for you. And with it's path from one
side to the other is time. And when both are used together, then an idea can be
had how long it will take for the weight to drop and accelerate the pendulum to
it's velocity. Classical Newton if ever I saw it. His Laws of Motion do come in
handy.
As it is, if anything, because the lift of the scissored weight is greater than the
lift of the 2 points on the scissor, the pendulum might be slowed relative to real time
as well. But this would be okay because the resulting acceleration would hopefully
be more.

                                                                                Jim

edited to add; if the pendulum is 1 meter, then at 30 degres, it would have a 13.4 cm drop
and a 50 cm horizontal movement to reach bottom center. This is important as in lifting
the scissors would need to be factored into or subtracted from this in determining the over
all motion.   Jim
                       

[johnny874]

   Tom,
I think this might be our own invention. One thing about scissors is
that they are made up by a group of levers. And Bessler said that when
he saw his wheel rotated some, he built more pulleys and levers. There
might be a way that when one lever in a scissor is rotated up or down, all
the other levers move upwards or downwards with it.
It's possible we realized a slightly different way of doing what he did. If so,
then yes, it is our invention because it is different than the way he did it.
I'll try to explain how pulleys can be used as gears to work levers in a
scissor type fashion. Give me a day or 2.

                                                                                                      Jim

[johnny874]

   @All,
With what I was working on and with what Tom was discussing, together they work quite well.
Mt 26 is the drawing that came to mind yesterday. If you follow the link, Bessler tells us there
is something missing. Levers and pulleys. I was talking to a gal I know at work. I was surprised when she remebered I was working on Bessler. I had to tell her I've had to stop working on it until I can get back to normal health.
What I am going to do is detail how Bessler's wheel would have worked. And who knows, maybe Tom, gdez or Neptune might give it a go.
The secret behind would be that when the pendulum swings, it rotates a pulley. This in turn rotates a lot of other pulleys that go from the outside of the scissor, to the middle, back to the outside, back to the middle. Basically. like a serpentine belt on a newer motor.
What happens is that the pulleys in the middle of the scissors alternate the direction they rotate. This causes them to wind in another line that goes down the middle of the scissors. They open as one and close as one. And with the line powering the pulleys going from outside to middle, etc., when the scissors close, the line stays the same length, so that is not a problem.
I'll post a drawing tomorrow. I think everyone should have a good idea of it. And if not, by all means, ask questions. This way everybody can have the same level of understanding. After all, we are talking about Bessler   

                                                                                                                                  Jim
p.s., if you want, go out to your car or someone elses and look at the pulleys and belts.

http://www.besslerwheel.com/wiki/index.php?title=MT_21-40#MT_026

edited to add; I decided to add a drawing of Mt 26 rotated 90 degrees. If a pulley is at A and rotates clockwise and a pulley is at C rotating counter clockwise, then the red line would be reeled in by both pulleys. The tan line that goes from a to b to c would be the line that converts the swing of the lever into the power that operates the pulleys. The rotation of the pulley would depend on how the line approachs it.
Something to think about and hopefully someone might give it a try.  Jim

[johnny874]

   @All,
This drawing shows more levers. There are a couple things I am mindful of.
One of them is that Bessler built a wheel 4 inches thick. That's not much room
to work with. This concept could fit in such a small space. The weight on the
pendulum could swing underneath the weight that hangs from the drum.
This just means the connecting rod would be on both sides of the scissors.
It is possible to use an off set pulley on top. This means that the axle would not
be in the center of the pulley, but lower down. This would allow the swinging
pendulum to rotate the drum counter clockwise, lifting it's weight. When the
pendulum releases the drum, then it's weight would start dropping putting it's
enerhy back into the system.
One thing I have wondered is if the drum's rotation could be slowed to allow
the pendulum to swing back to it's starting position. If so, then the wheel would
be under almost constant power. And one last thought, the drop of the pendulum
and it's distance from the center line would be how it's potential for leveraging the
lift of the drum weight would be considered. It might be lighter than what it would
seem to need to be.
  As time goes by, I'll get into the math. Then it could be better understood what it
would take to build a working model.

                                                                                                      Jim

edited to add; the basic numbers for what I drew is the CoG of the pendulum's weight
is 13.5cm from center. The scissors are 1 cm from center. That's an amazing 13.5:1 ratio.
I think I have the pendulum at a 30 degree angle. And FYI, because metric can work well
with trig, the math I will be showing will be in metric. An example of this is 1 meter @ 30 degrees
puts a weight 50 cm from center with a drop of 13.4 cm's (1m - 86.6 = 13.4). From this, we can figure
out how quickly the pendulum needs to lift the drum weight (degrees of rotation).
for SAE, 2.5cm = 1 inch (close enough  )

           

[johnny874]

Hey Jim,


Strange thought I have been having, now do not read anything into this it is just a thought thing I am playing with.


So, you have two identical masses connected together by an ideal string, aka no mass no resistance and it will not stretch, and this string is hooked over an ideal pulley, no mass no resistance, alright, now if you come from underneath one of the masses and apply an impulse hit upwards the mass accelerates is if there is no gravity and turns the impulse hit into inertia, right? anyway so now when you stop *that* mass from moving you should be able to recover the input force, so what about the other mass.


Like I said it is just a strange thought, I am not sure if the input would be applied to just the one mass or if it is split between the two,, but the string can not transfer that force,,,


This came from asking myself what if I had a 2:1 lever but I only wanted to lift the heavy mass 1\2 the distance I could, say a 1 pound mass lifting a 2 pound mass, the one pound mass moving 2 feet and the 2 pound mass only moving 1\2 foot?

   Tom,
What you're describing is Newton's Cradle. They sell those. One bearing drops down at strokes one at rest.
The inertia travels through a few bearings and the last one swings upward. When it swings down, it repeats the process.
What you've thought of is better than that. I've been trying to think of a simple test to help demonstrate it's potential. Basically, how fast it could cause a wheel to spin.

                                                                                                           Jim