DIY - Stable Redox Molecules

[gravityblock]

US Patent #US20090110749A1, http://www.billjacques.com/pdf/US20090110749A1.pdf

Quick Summary:

Decomposition of water is a redox reaction. The oxidation reaction occurs at one electrode, and the reduction reaction at the other electrode.  Circulating a saline concentration of at least 0.15%, while maintaining a PH of 7.2 to 7.5 with a temperature range of 30 - 100 degrees Fahrenheit and using < 30volts will produce stable redox molecules and will be sufficient to prevent production of toxic chlorates.

The Nanodrop 3300 fluorospectrometer, can be used to measure the amount of reactive molecules found in every batch.  Thermo Scientific has a free one-week trial period to evaluate the fluorspectrometer (they will also pay all shipping costs), http://www.nanodrop.com/TrialProgram.aspx

The stable ROS concentration, for example, has a variation of less than 5% from batch to batch and from device to device when the same set of parameters are employed by each.  It may even be safe to assume future batches to be free of the unwanted chlorates once the Nanodrop has successfully verified the production of stable redox molecules if the same set of parameters are employed for each batch.  Of course it would be better to use the Nanodrop or other similar device to verify the safety of every batch.  Maybe with further research, an alternative or extremely cheap method of verifying every batch produced is safe to consume will be found.  The method itself looks simple.  The purpose of this thread is for those who can not afford the redox molecules which are currently being manufactured and distributed by a certain company(s) and for educational purposes, while being done in the "Spirit of Open-Source".  The safety of the consumed solution should also be of concern, but I think this is more than likely a scare tactic, especially if the correct procedures, parameters, etc., is followed.

GB

[qiman]

I am posting my responses to GB from Energetic Forum in regards to his "DYI Redox" drink - I'm all for experimentation but safety first:

----------------------

THINK GB, the average person is going to use stainless steel, etc.. and will wind up with traces of toxic chromium, etc... in their mix, etc... go ahead and encourage people to screw themselves up - not very smart.

Why don't you study the whole thing before haphazardly recommending that people poison themselves.

Scare tactic? Anyone with business sense knows that a very small
insignificant percentage of anyone that will try to do it themselves has
no bearing on the majority of the population that simply wants to purchase
it. This has ALWAYS been the case.

Look at the history of the radiant battery charging for example - many people want to do it themselves UNTIL it is actually available to buy so people don't have to waste their time - unless they just want to study it but that is a small minority - most people are fairly pragmatic and see it as a waste of time.

Personally, I find it interesting and want to keep studying it but you are talking about a product that someone is to ingest and a product that your knowledge of is extremely minuscule, while inferring that people could make it themselves while saying it is a scare tactic to discourage someone from doing so.

In my book, I mention that if someone wants to experiment with using electrolyzed water for biology to practice on plants first that don't produce food. You really need to walk before you can run and if anyone gets sick from your ill informed advice, you are 100% responsible for them. Very easy for an anonymous person that refuses to put their real name to anything they say.

I have no problem with people discussing the science first but to suggest something that you know nothing about is completely irresponsible.

----------------------------------

To have a responsible discussion about this with people that are actually qualified to discuss it, I started this thread: http://www.energeticforum.com/health-fitness-nutrition/8819-redox-signaling-molecules.html

I have information that others don't and GB's casual references are immature and irresponsible.

To those that have no intent of following responsible advice and insists on trying to drink what they brew up in their garage, use only platinum electrodes or you will poison yourself by changing the chemistry of the solution when iron and other metals come in contact with the solution.

Passivated layers on steel to make them "stainless" are not really stainless, they are only stain resistant until the passivation layer is broken through and it doesn't take much under these circumstances to do that.

Take the advice in my book - if you experiment with anything along these lines, experiment first on plants that do not produce food that you will eat. No matter what you do, you will not replicate a stabilized solution of 16 molecules unless you are "skilled in the art" and the patent apps and patents only give you a direction but do not show you the complete path. They are enough to understand what the final product is to understand the molecules involved and that is enough to understand the biochemical pathways involved in ROS and RS reactions at the cellular level.

Some people can be naive to believe that a cursory overview of an app or patent for this is enough to circumvent 16 years and millions of dollars in research in order to make this happen - that is fine - we all like to feel we can take shortcuts but this is not some motor experiment, this is something we DRINK and this is not a joke. Electric experiments are one thing but people's body's and health are something not to mess around with.

Sorry GB, wake up and give some disclaimers before planting goofball ideas in people's heads that may not know any better. You can claim you are only commenting that they may be using something as a "scare tactic" to keep people from trying to replicate and will claim you are not trying to encourage people to replicate it but posting info on a fluorspectrometer is all telling. You have a clear history revealing your Modus operandi here so we can just let it rest at that. You posted your link at ou and I will cross link to my own threads here.

This applies to simple electrolyzed water even without sodium chloride. George Wiseman's Browns Gas for Health http://www.eagle-research.com/cms/blog/browns-gas/browns-gas-health-enhancement/how-use-browns-gas-health-enhancement page. Sounds like he gave himself pneumonia by inhaling gas produced with lye as an electrolyte. Sodium chloride is not lye but but it can produce very toxic chlorine compounds that can kill your lungs. Mustard gas is a form of chlorine gas. Just use common sense and safety first everyone.

The ONLY thing I would recommend doing as an experiment for starters is electrolyzed water with no electrolyte and using that as a liquid to water plants (that grow no food) with. Jumping straight to electrolyte based solutions for health purposes is like asking someone that is using a AA battery to light an LED to start playing with a million volt Tesla Coil - they aren't the same thing.

I will answer what I can here: http://www.energeticforum.com/health-fitness-nutrition/8819-redox-signaling-molecules.html but will not encourage people to start brewing up poison in their garage. Countless millions of dollars are not going to be invested in something that just anyone can cook up in their spare time as a hobby.

[SeaMonkey]

Qiman,

Your expressed points of view are understandable
as you have a vested interest in the commercial
success of a product which you are promoting on
your Energetic Forum website.

I, however, do not see where Gravityblock is making
any reckless recommendations or encouraging the
pursuit of discovery without adequate precaution.

There is a great deal of curiosity regarding the product
which you are promoting and as a natural consequence
there will be discussion directed towards the goal of
understanding what it actually is as well as the process
which causes it to be made.

Scare tactics and hyperbole are frequently resorted to
by promoters of health products in an effort to discourage
replicating what may indeed be a very simple process.

Hopefully, in the discussion which ensues the truth regarding
any potential hazards will be illuminated as will remedies to
avoid those hazards.

I look forward to additional input on this topic. 

[SeaMonkey]

The patent referenced by Gravityblock in the initial posting
is very interesting and it does convey considerable detail.

In order to attain the desired level of "reactive oxygen species"
by electrolysis within the chosen electrolyte it would seem that
the solution must be kept cold and that the current level must
be quite high.  Ozone, which is one of the electrolysis products,
is normally produced at current levels which are substantial.

The specified electrodes are exotic rare earth metals so there
is also the possibility that some catalysis is occurring.

[gravityblock]

I am posting my responses to GB from Energetic Forum in regards to his "DYI Redox" drink - I'm all for experimentation but safety first:

----------------------

THINK GB, the average person is going to use stainless steel, etc.. and will wind up with traces of toxic chromium, etc... in their mix, etc... go ahead and encourage people to screw themselves up - not very smart.

Why don't you study the whole thing before haphazardly recommending that people poison themselves.

Scare tactic? Anyone with business sense knows that a very small
insignificant percentage of anyone that will try to do it themselves has
no bearing on the majority of the population that simply wants to purchase
it. This has ALWAYS been the case.

Look at the history of the radiant battery charging for example - many people want to do it themselves UNTIL it is actually available to buy so people don't have to waste their time - unless they just want to study it but that is a small minority - most people are fairly pragmatic and see it as a waste of time.

Personally, I find it interesting and want to keep studying it but you are talking about a product that someone is to ingest and a product that your knowledge of is extremely minuscule, while inferring that people could make it themselves while saying it is a scare tactic to discourage someone from doing so.

In my book, I mention that if someone wants to experiment with using electrolyzed water for biology to practice on plants first that don't produce food. You really need to walk before you can run and if anyone gets sick from your ill informed advice, you are 100% responsible for them. Very easy for an anonymous person that refuses to put their real name to anything they say.

I have no problem with people discussing the science first but to suggest something that you know nothing about is completely irresponsible.

----------------------------------

To have a responsible discussion about this with people that are actually qualified to discuss it, I started this thread: http://www.energeticforum.com/health-fitness-nutrition/8819-redox-signaling-molecules.html

I have information that others don't and GB's casual references are immature and irresponsible.

To those that have no intent of following responsible advice and insists on trying to drink what they brew up in their garage, use only platinum electrodes or you will poison yourself by changing the chemistry of the solution when iron and other metals come in contact with the solution.

Passivated layers on steel to make them "stainless" are not really stainless, they are only stain resistant until the passivation layer is broken through and it doesn't take much under these circumstances to do that.

Take the advice in my book - if you experiment with anything along these lines, experiment first on plants that do not produce food that you will eat. No matter what you do, you will not replicate a stabilized solution of 16 molecules unless you are "skilled in the art" and the patent apps and patents only give you a direction but do not show you the complete path. They are enough to understand what the final product is to understand the molecules involved and that is enough to understand the biochemical pathways involved in ROS and RS reactions at the cellular level.

Some people can be naive to believe that a cursory overview of an app or patent for this is enough to circumvent 16 years and millions of dollars in research in order to make this happen - that is fine - we all like to feel we can take shortcuts but this is not some motor experiment, this is something we DRINK and this is not a joke. Electric experiments are one thing but people's body's and health are something not to mess around with.

Sorry GB, wake up and give some disclaimers before planting goofball ideas in people's heads that may not know any better. You can claim you are only commenting that they may be using something as a "scare tactic" to keep people from trying to replicate and will claim you are not trying to encourage people to replicate it but posting info on a fluorspectrometer is all telling. You have a clear history revealing your Modus operandi here so we can just let it rest at that. You posted your link at ou and I will cross link to my own threads here.

This applies to simple electrolyzed water even without sodium chloride. George Wiseman's Browns Gas for Health http://www.eagle-research.com/cms/blog/browns-gas/browns-gas-health-enhancement/how-use-browns-gas-health-enhancement page. Sounds like he gave himself pneumonia by inhaling gas produced with lye as an electrolyte. Sodium chloride is not lye but but it can produce very toxic chlorine compounds that can kill your lungs. Mustard gas is a form of chlorine gas. Just use common sense and safety first everyone.

The ONLY thing I would recommend doing as an experiment for starters is electrolyzed water with no electrolyte and using that as a liquid to water plants (that grow no food) with. Jumping straight to electrolyte based solutions for health purposes is like asking someone that is using a AA battery to light an LED to start playing with a million volt Tesla Coil - they aren't the same thing.

I will answer what I can here: http://www.energeticforum.com/health-fitness-nutrition/8819-redox-signaling-molecules.html but will not encourage people to start brewing up poison in their garage. Countless millions of dollars are not going to be invested in something that just anyone can cook up in their spare time as a hobby.

You're automatically assuming that a toxic chlorine stew will be produced by those who decide to do this themselves. I never said to use stainless steel, but according to you, this is what people will use if they do it themselves. This is the purpose of having a discussion on how to DIY, so it can be done properly. I never told anyone to produce a toxic chlorine stew so they can ingest it ( I never told anyone to do this sort of thing, as you're suggesting I did). In fact, there are devices already on the market which utilize electrolysis through patented platinum bonded titanium electrodes inside a water cell along with being able to control the pH. Below is a link to a brochure on such a device, which utilizes the most advanced platinum-titanium electrodes in the world. This system is a little pricey, but there are cheaper alternatives available also. Comparing the price of this system to the price of a one year supply through the MLM scheme is the break-even point. If this product is as good as everyone is saying it is, then wouldn't you want a life-time supply of this (for you and the rest of your family or loved ones)? Compare the amount of money you would spend in 2, 5, 10, or 20 years of buying this product through the MLM at it's current price, then compare it to doing it yourself with the appropriate equipment. I don't want to hear how you can get it for free if you find five other people. People will run away the moment they think you want to make money off of them. Besides, most of them will drop out without any involvement within the first month.

Alkaline Water Ionizers originated in Russia in the late 1960’s. Reports emerged of life changing water that was easy to produce and had amazing taste and effects. The Japanese with their macrobiotic history and knowledge of pH immediately recognized how this water could assist our health. The Jupiter Science Aquarius (see link below) employs computer accurate, selectable magnetic energy to perform electrolysis through patented platinum bonded titanium electrodes inside a water cell. A little modification to this or a similar device is all that is needed. EF MEMBERS HAVE BEEN SOLD OUT!

I never admitted anywhere that I only do "theory". I have done many experiments and replications on the various forums. There is no reason for me to attach my real name to anything I do on these forums, because I'm not selling anything like you are. I want others to know that it may be possible to produce a safe and stable form of redox molecules themselves at a fraction of the cost. The concentrations of the 16 molecules is controlled by the parameters chosen, such as temperature and voltage.

Brochure link, http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=7&ved=0CGwQFjAG&url=http%3A%2F%2Flnpyh.com%2FJupiter_Aquarius_Flyer.doc&rct=j&q=platinum%20bonded%20electrodes&ei=WI5BTvX7IKOtsQLfz-C0CQ&usg=AFQjCNHgycDIEw6sJOV7hA80xqam2oHrXQ&cad=rja

GB