Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells

[triffid]

I'm just after the truth and the truth is we need this power source.triffid

[ibpointless2]

I have done quite a bit of testing here lately and thought I would cover the topic of water.


Water contains one oxygen and two hydrogen.


Water is repelled my magnetic forces but attracted to electric forces.


Every living thing needs water to live.


I would like to put forth some terms and what they mean to me.


Water Battery - A water battery is just your normal battery, ie, 12 lead acid, lemon battery, Potato battery, tap water battery, AA, D cell, etc. What all these cells have in common is that they consume one or both electrodes, they also have short lifetimes on them that can be measured in weeks. Water batteries use water as the median and water battery won't give voltage or amps unless water is touching the electrodes.


Crystal Cell/Battery - Does not rely on water to keep the cell alive. Not much is known about this type of battery but they do exist. I try to base my work around this type of cell. My crystal cells don't need water to keep their original voltage, even when dry the cell still holds its original voltage. Due to the crystal cell lattice they have high resistance thus they give low amps. Like I said not much is known about this type of cell and more study will reveal more about it. The goal is to make cells that last for a long time that don't corrode the electrodes. A pressure cell would be apart of this group because no water is needed to get voltage.


Crystal Water Battery - This is a combination of the two batteries mention above. The problem with this cell is that water is included into the mix. I'm sure water could be used in a way to keep the cell from corroding but from all my test its been the water that corrodes the metals electrodes. Just leave a small piece of magnesium in a cup of water and in a few days it will show corrosion and thus proving water corrodes metals. Add salts like Epsom salt to it and it will corrode faster. To combat with the corrosion in the crystal water battery people tend to use bigger electrodes so that the corrosion takes much longer to show up. These type of cells are much like the water battery due to that they don't give a voltage unless water is touching the electrodes. In-order for this type of cell to be of any use is if the water was to be non-water, either by transforming it to a liquid crystal or into a solid.


Conclusion - I've done the testing and I find that its water that corrodes metals. The reason why galvanic action speeds up the corrosion is that water is attracted electricity and thus a higher concentration water builds up around the electrodes thus causing the metals to corrode faster. The main idea is to either stay away from water or make water not itself anymore. If water is present than the electrodes will corrode. If water is not present than the metals won't corrode.


I'm still experimenting and looking for the best ways to use crystal cells.

[NickZ]

   triffid:
   Although it may seam as high impedance is an easy thing to overcome, yet no one had been able to overcome that yet, especially for any amount of time, like months.
  Even 100 of these cells will not charge a single rechargeable AA to its normal working normal CURRENT levels of 600 to 2700 mA, and fluffy voltage without current is not the same, nor will not work the same. 
  You'll find that the led connected to three or more cells will be very dim after a day or two, if still on at all. That is what high impedance does. Doesn't matter if you disagree, as you will see it for yourself. I'm not inventing this, it is what we have been all fighting against for years now.  It helps to make a proper low draw oscillator circuit, but strong cells are still very important to have in the first place.
  You are not working with only with junk, you are buying Epsom, and the salt substitute, and driving miles to get it.  Not free, nor are they junk. 
  However to make the higher output cells that can produce 1.5 to 2 volts, and 100 to 200 mA or more, with out dropping in voltage (due to impedance or resistance), and that also last for a long time, is not an easy thing to make.
 
   Ib2:
   I am finding that even in a dry cell with no added water, there is still oxidation of the metals, even in a sealed totally dry cell. Where I live next to the ocean most metals will corrode, so we may still need to work with the oxide layers, even with dry non galvanic cells.  I'm seeing that the copper oxide layer does not corrode. Not does it conduct, but ions can pass through it.  There is no way that an untreated metal cell will not corrode in time, as the hydrogen gas and electrolysis that it will produce will oxidize the metals and contaminate the electrolyte. 
  BTW:  the original salt cell that I made using table salt, and also the hot dog cell using the same table salt are both still working, after more than half a year.  Both produce about 0.6 volts, and the hot dog cell still has 20 mA. (down from 50 mA originally).
Although I also don't recommend the use of regular table salt, as it is not the best salt to use for making these salt crystal cells, but it does work and is available anywhere.
   

[triffid]

I agree it was worth it to drive the extra miles to get the proper salt sub and to see voltages develop on my cells.I think it will end up being some very unusal form of inorganic molecule.triffid

[PhiChaser]

Great discussion everyone!
I can see both points of view regarding using 'junk' vs. 'pure' materials. If you use better ingredients you get a better battery, that makes perfect sense, but I produce plenty of trash and if there is a way to use that 'somehow' with other DIY tech, why wouldn't I use my 'trash' to power my house?!?
My experiments probably won't go that far, but the reuse/recycle ideas are inspirational triffid!!
@ IB: Thanks for your insight! Great way to break it down, useful information for future projects.
I will probably be ordering some more rigid carbon tube online since it doesn't cost much for a four foot stick and weighs next to nothing. The size I have fits 14awg bare copper snug enough to make an electrical connection (at least they appear to be close to equivalent when I clip the leads to the copper or the carbon tube).
Do carbon and copper react to each other? If not then we have an easy way to get to a copper connection without actually having the copper touch the electrolyte. Would that be way low corrosion?!?
I have some little ceramic capacitors here so I may try out some things with those eventually too.
Short work week for me so off I go to take some measurements and shopping...
PC