Testing the TK Tar Baby

[TinselKoala]

Preserved intact for posterity:

TK said,

Note that Rosemary again has claimed in no uncertain terms that the FG cannot put current into the system. This means, of course, that when her FG is set to produce the long-period, negative signal, causing the oscillations for minutes at a time, NO CURRENT flows from or to the FG to or from the circuit.

Right?

This is easily testable. Even Rosemary could test it. If she only had someone to hook it up for her and explain what the numbers mean.

We've already tested it for Tar Baby, haven't we? I can't recall if we did it using the FG alone or just with the external DC power supply. No matter.... we know that the Interstate F43 is a "magic" function generator already. So it shouldn't surprise anyone if it does manage to stuff current up Tar Baby somehow. But of course Ainslie's IsoTech 324.... which nobody can find on the internet anywhere..... can't do this at all, it only makes VOLTAGE.
Right?

And Ainslie said:

Back to this statement of TK's.  YES.  This is right. The function generator NEVER passes current other than back to it's own plug source.  What it does on the circuit is it applies a voltage as a result of it's current flow.  That applied voltage, in turn, induces a current flow on the circuit where the voltage is applied.  So. Well done TK.  It seems you're getting it.  You see this now.  Thank you God.  Because, then, self-evidently - it would be following the Laws of Induction.  And without those laws of induction it would not be able to generate any current flow at all.  It is a 'generator'.  Not a 'power supply source'.

Rosie Pose

And then TK laughed and laughed. A "generator". Not a "power supply source". "Induces" a current according to the "Laws of Induction". Do you mean Faraday's Law of Induction? Or your country's military draft laws? Because neither have anything to do with how the FG functions in your circuit.
I wonder how I was able to use a Function Generator to charge a small battery, light up LEDs, drive a motor..... Oh.. that's right, I have magic bench equipment that does what nobody else's equipment does. After all... who ever heard of an Interstate "high voltage function generator"? That right there gives the whole story away. TK is using HIGH VOLTAGE !!

Therefore aliens.

[Rosemary Ainslie]

My dear Poynty Point

Again.  If this is the schematic that you're relying on to represent our circuit - then it's wrong.  I have no other way of telling you this.  Your ground terminal is at the wrong place.  It needs to be ON the gate of Q2.  Nowhere else.  Unless you choose to put it on the source leg - because it actually makes very little difference.  But it is not where you've indicated it on your schematic.  Nowhere near.

[picowatt]

One of them was, anyway. Clearly there is bias current... as we have also determined theoretically and in the hardware. So theory, simulation, and hardware agree.

The second question was about Anslie's response to the information from .99's sim. How can the sim result (not to mention the hardware and the theory) be reconciled with Ainslie's categorical denial that current flows through the FG or that the FG can be a source of power to the circuit?

TK,

It can't be reconciled and I doubt it ever will be.  In spite of all the sim evidence, hardware evidence, mfg literature,  and standard electronic theory, nothing has changed.  A horse can be led to water, but cannot be made to drink.  Personally, I no longer care. 

So you still "boiling batteries"?  How much time are you going to have with the Tek?  Do you feel the need to do any manual reading as prep?  At least, hopefully, your trip will not be hindered with car issues!

PW

[TinselKoala]

Can anybody tell me anything at all about the "IsoTech GFG 324" function generator? Why is it crippled?

I mean, I know for a fact that the Instech unit used in the demo can do everything that my Interstate can do, just not with the peak "high voltage" of 40 v p-p.

But I can't find any information anywhere about the "IsoTech GFG 324" that could explain why it acts differently than any other function generator in the world and doesn't push Current, through a Resistance, when it applies Voltage.

[Rosemary Ainslie]

My dear TinselKoala

You've misquoted me.  Who would have thought?  Did you ALTER my post?  I'll get back there.

Meanwhile - back to business...

And then TK laughed and laughed. A "generator". Not a "power supply source". "Induces" a current according to the "Laws of Induction". Do you mean Faraday's Law of Induction? Or your country's military draft laws? Because neither have anything to do with how the FG functions in your circuit.
I wonder how I was able to use a Function Generator to charge a small battery, light up LEDs, drive a motor..... Oh.. that's right, I have magic bench equipment that does what nobody else's equipment does. After all... who ever heard of an Interstate "high voltage function generator"? That right there gives the whole story away. TK is using HIGH VOLTAGE !!

Therefore aliens.

Delighted to see you're amused.  Yes I mean Faraday's Laws of Induction.  No I do not mean our country's military draft laws.  We have none.  I DID NOT see anything related to you charging a non rechargeable battery.  On the contrary I saw an obsessive need to apply a non rechargeable battery to power your 555 because you needed to prove that it would ONLY discharge.  Golly.  It performed as expected.  That's what non rechargeable batteries do.  You then rather fatuously argued that it loses energy.  Which is also as expected.  What you DID NOT DO was use a battery that could benefit from all that INDUCED oscillation in order to determine the amount of energy that is is ACTUALLY transferred THROUGH INDUCTIVE PRINCIPLES back to the 555's battery supply.  CLEARLY.  Because you USED THE WRONG BATTERY.  And that would have DEFEATED your argument.  Sorry. For 'argument' read 'spin'.

Your LED's lit up because the resistance on the wire was enough to induce a small voltage which then collapsed as that square wave signal changed - which then produced power proportional to the square of the applied voltage on both halves of that square wave applied signal.  You drove your motor on precisely those same principles.  So.  TK.  Let us know how you managed to defeat Faraday's Laws of Induction.

Rosie Pose
edited