Testing the TK Tar Baby

[Groundloop]

Sorry but you are also incorrect here. It is true that FUNDAMENTALLY all units are derived from length, time, charge and mass. Therefore yes, deep into the definition of the Joule, a quantity of energy, there is a time element involved. But there is no time element in the first definition you cite, is there, and the second electrical definition is circular just like Ohm's Law.

However if you DO THE MATH (tm RA) you will find that one Joule is one Watt TIMES one second, not one watt per second.

The Joule is a quantity. A quantity DIVIDED by a time interval is a rate. Kilometers per hour, amperes per second: all rates. A Joule per second  means 1 Joule / one second, and that is the definition of a WATT-- Power, the RATE at which units of work are done.
A Watt is a rate. A rate MULTIPLIED by a time interval yields a quantity. Burn a hundred watt bulb for ten seconds and what energy has been dissipated?
One hundred watts TIMES ten seconds equals 1000 Joules. Joules: the units of work, which can be done slowly (low power) or quickly (high power).

TK,

No I do NOT agree with you. The time factor in Joule is NOT deep into the definition of the Joule. It is plain and simple open.
Joule is NOT a unit without time in it. Joule is a definition of WORK DONE. To do WORK you have to use some time to do it.

1 Joule = (kg * (m*m)) / (s * s), where kg = kilogram, m = meter, s = second.
1 Joule is also 1 Ampere at 1 Volt through 1 Ohm in 1 Second = Work done.
So if we heat a 1 Ohm resistor at 1 Volt with 1 Ampere for 1 Second then we get 1 Joule of Work done.
Therefore: 1 Joule = 1 Watt per Second AND 1 Watt per Second = 1 Joule.
So saying that a Joule is a timeless UNIT is plain wrong.

1 Joule is NOT 1 Watt DIVIDED (/) by one second. It is 1 Watt at the duration (per) of one second.
And if you have 1 Watt lasting 1 second in your load then you get 1 Joule.

>>>>A Joule per second

You can't say that! The definition of a Joule already HAS time integrated into the formula.
It like saying: ((kg*(m*m)/(s*s) * s and that is NOT correct. A Joule is NOT a timeless unit.

GL.

[TinselKoala]

TK,

No I do NOT agree with you. The time factor in Joule is NOT deep into the definition of the Joule. It is plain and simple open.
Joule is NOT a unit without time in it. Joule is a definition of WORK DONE. To do WORK you have to use some time to do it.

1 Joule = (kg * (m*m)) / (s * s), where kg = kilogram, m = meter, s = second.
1 Joule is also 1 Ampere at 1 Volt through 1 Ohm in 1 Second = Work done.
So if we heat a 1 Ohm resistor at 1 Volt with 1 Ampere for 1 Second then we get 1 Joule of Work done.
Therefore: 1 Joule = 1 Watt per Second AND 1 Watt per Second = 1 Joule.
So saying that a Joule is a timeless UNIT is plain wrong.

1 Joule is NOT 1 Watt DIVIDED (/) by one second. It is 1 Watt at the duration (per) of one second.
And if you have 1 Watt lasting 1 second in your load then you get 1 Joule.

GL.

That latter part is what I have been telling Ainslie, and now you, all along. I have NEVER said that a Joule is 1 watt / 1 second. In English, the word PER means division. Miles per hour. Watts PER second. AINSLIE has been saying 1 joule = 1 watt / one second, and calculating that way too.

If you have one watt lasting FOR one second that is 1 watt x one second or one WATTSECOND or one JOULE.
If you have ten Joules sitting there in your battery, waiting to do some work, where is the time? If you then dissipate those Joules at a RATE of ten Joules PER second, ten Joules/second, you are THEN performing work with your Joules and exerting POWER at a rate of ten WATTS. You could dissipate that same ten joules at a rate of one Joule PER second and you would be working at a power of 1 Watt. RIGHT?

If a Joule and a Watt are the same thing, how can this be? The same number of Joules makes a different number of Watts?
A quantity is not a rate. They are not the same thing and their math roles are very different.

Sorry to shout, maybe there is a language barrier. In English per means division and for means multiplication.

[fuzzytomcat]

Hi guys,

http://www.rapidtables.com/convert/electric/Joule_to_Watt.htm

HOW TO CONVERT JOULES TO WATTS

How to convert energy in joules (J) to electric power in watts (W).


You can calculate watts from joules and seconds, but you can't convert joules to watts, since joule and watt units represent different quantities.


JOULES TO WATTS CALCULATION FORMULA

The power P in watts (W) is equal to the energy E in joules (J), divided by the time period t in seconds (s):
P_(W) = E_(J)/ t_(s)

So
watt = joule / second


or
W = J / s


EXAMPLE What is the power consumption of an electrical circuit that has energy consumption of 90 joules for time duration of 3 seconds?


P_(W) = 90J / 3s = 30W

[Groundloop]

That latter part is what I have been telling Ainslie, and now you, all along. I have NEVER said that a Joule is 1 watt / 1 second. In English, the word PER means division. Miles per hour. Watts PER second. AINSLIE has been saying 1 joule = 1 watt / one second, and calculating that way too.

If you have one watt lasting FOR one second that is 1 watt x one second or one WATTSECOND or one JOULE.
If you have ten Joules sitting there in your battery, waiting to do some work, where is the time? If you then dissipate those Joules at a RATE of ten Joules PER second, ten Joules/second, you are THEN performing work with your Joules and exerting POWER at a rate of ten WATTS.

Sorry to shout, maybe there is a language barrier. In English per means division and for means multiplication.

TK,

Yes, we are talking about the same issue.
But it is wrong to say Joule per Second, as you did. (See post over.)
Yes you can use / and also x to find Joule.

GL.

[TinselKoala]

TK,

Yes, we are talking about the same issue.
But it is wrong to say Joule per Second, as you did. (See post over.)
Yes you can use / and also x to find Joule.

GL.

No, it's not wrong to say one Watt is one Joule PER second. This is completely accepted usage of the word PER which indicates division in English.
http://www.bing.com/search?q=watt+per+second&form=MOZSBR&pc=MOZI
http://www.bing.com/search?q=joule+per+second&form=MOZSBR&pc=MOZI
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_unit_is_equivalent_to_watts_per_second

http://www.aqua-calc.com/what-is/power/joule-per-second

It is however completely wrong to say that 1 joule = 1 watt per second.