Bessler , Karl I! The fat lady is gonna sing , haters bring it I'm not skeered .

[johnny874]

J847 ,
I think what people ( myself included ) don't realize is it takes a certain form of a machine to take advantage of what already exists . We have a feel for how we want our machine to work but just can't quite seem to put our fingers on the mechanics of how to accomplish it . As for the claims I'm not asking for a million dollars ( yet ) or to be published in a scientific journal . The idea I have come up with is the form that is necessary to accomplish this motion ... it is the Mobile Per se that Bessler wrote about . That is what I believe so that's what I am gonna say . I know this is not religion either so belief doesn't mean much but I'm pretty good at this stuff really and what I'm looking at takes the "suit" off the problem .

   Christo,
Sadly, I do need to disagree with you. it does require some faith. it is what I have worked from. Something in his description reminded me why Boeing airplane Co. used webbing to lighten the construction of their airplanes. empty spaces (many compartments) reduce the weight.
Being more realistic, I think in his drawing of his bi- directional wheel at Merseberg where he shows 3 crosses. People have found this meaningless for some reason. With Bessler seeming to be what most people would consider a devout Christian, I dunno.
Of course, the 3 crosses reference the crucifixion of Jesus and the 2 thieves. I've never been to church in my life so would not know who Jesus was crucified with.
  Still, his wheel is simple to understand but does require a capable person to build. The first drawing I am attaching shows a design where 8 knocking sounds per revolution of the wheel would be heard. If all the levers were shortened, then it could rotate in the opposing direction.
Also, the weights do fall in the direction the wheel is rotating. if it rotates in the clock wise direction, then the weights when moving upwards would fall from left to right above the axle, the same direction the wheel is rotating.
The 2nd drawing shows a basic layout for making the outer part of the wheel and it's inner part which performs the work. lamination with 1/8 inch thin plywood allows for easy construction by using polyurethane glue.
By using 3/4 inch plywood, if it is routed to form a circle, then with 4 circles, the wheel could be built.
This would be at a cost of about $80 to $100. it does cost to build.
As for myself, I have to visit the V.A. clinic tomorrow and get a medical clearance to return to work. I need a colostomy but doctors don't seem interested in resolving my situation. So i figure the least they can do is lie for me and tell my employer than I am able to work with no restrictions. God willing, I will be laid off. Until then, &*()()*^&%^%$$$. Edited for censorship, childen might be online.
By the way, with Mt 20, he said to tether your horse in the direction you want it to go. To simplify, the weights don't need to hit the hub, wasted motion and is hard on the wheel. he improved his design, he was an engineer after all.

edited to add; the bottom right of the 2nd drawing shows how one section can push down another one. This would allow for one weight / lever combination to act on the beginning of one section and the end of another.

[johnny874]

   Chris,
I'll throw a little math your way.
If the wheel is 4 inches (10 cm's) wide and the tube is rectangular and is 1 inch (2.5 cm's) deep and each section is 10 inches (25 cm's) long, then the volume is about 40 cubic inches or 625 cubic cm's. Water weighs 1 pound for every 28.3 cubic inches. This would mean that one section could hold 1.4 pounds of water (think of a 20 oz. bottle of water or soda) or 625 grams. And the 8 weights could weigh only 5.6 lbs.
This would be in a wheel with a radius of 12 3/4 inches or 32.33 cm's.
I guess the question becomes how much force can 1.4 lbs. or 625g's generate ? In American terms, close to 1 1/2 foot pounds of torque. In metric, a little more than 2nm (Newton's units of gravitational force, 1kg @ 1m = 9.8nm).
I think that would be sufficient to rotate a small table top model of a wheel.
Will be talking to my doctor to see about surgery. Need to be able to move forward in my life. Not sure how that would work out but a wheel like this might not be that difficult to build. it would mostly be getting used to the idea. After all, the wheel is composed of 8 equal sections, if you can understand one section, that is all it takes.
I think this is why the guy who made the sarcastic comment, so simple a child could build it was because once you know how it's done, it's just a matter of taking the time to build it. it's mostly having a place to work on it when you feel like it. It's a hobby and I think that is over looked sometimes.

                                                                                    Jim
edited to add a refernce to 20 oz.

[norman6538]

Ok here we go again. I have this great idea but you'll understand that I can't build it right now
because of blah blah blah but it will work...

When I look a the drawing I see a bottom heavy problem. Just draw one arm on a paper and rotate
it and I think you will see. Unless you can demonstrate to me that the center of gravity is
moved up above the axle I see no way this will work. But I hope you proove me wrong.


Norman

[johnny874]

Ok here we go again. I have this great idea but you'll understand that I can't build it right now
because of blah blah blah but it will work...

When I look a the drawing I see a bottom heavy problem. Just draw one arm on a paper and rotate
it and I think you will see. Unless you can demonstrate to me that the center of gravity is
moved up above the axle I see no way this will work. But I hope you proove me wrong.


Norman

  Uh, Norman,
Right now I am off work without pay for medical reasons, basically I need surgery and may have to sell my car.
It works for me.
As for the drawing, there is no bottom heavy problem. The weights on the levers cancel each other out, no gain and no loss.
This is why the water being pumped provides the over balance and it can be maintained to be centered at the level of the axel where it provides the greatest amount of torque.
As Bessler said, it will always strive to reach equilibrium but it will never find it's balance. This is because as the wheel rotates, it keeps pumping the water upwards. This is because the weights on the levers will have more force when they are at a right angle to gravity than hanging from their pivots.
By the way Norman, to me, it is about demonstrating Bessler's accomplishment, have nothing to prove to anyone, sorry about that.

                                                                                                                                 Johnny874

edited to add, this drawing shows the weight on the lever closer to what it's actual position would be. The drawing is a reference. At a 4:1 ratio, the weight would seem to land on the outer curved boards but would not. This is if the short lever moves 3 inches, the weight would move 12 inches.
when a lever is at 45%, it's total force would be 70.7% of the torque it is capable of producing which is length of lever times the weight on it's end. At a right angle to gravit, a 2.2 lb. or 1 kg. weight at 39 inches or 1 meter produces 1 nm of torque or about 6.5 foot lb.s of torque if using SAE.
For the scale I am refering to which is about 25 inches or 62.5 cm's in daimeter, a 1 lb. weight on a lever 1 foot long would generate 1 ft. lb.of torque. If the short leverr is 3 inches long, then at a 4:1 ratio, 4 lb.s of water could be pumped.
In metric terms, @ 30 cm's and .45 kg's, 1.8 kg's would be the equivalent force. And if only 1/2 that is used, then the other half could be converted into the spin of the wheel resulting in free rotation or a state of perpetuality as Bessler called it.

[johnny874]

    @All,
If my car is the only thing I lose because of my medical problems, it can be replaced.
I am fortunate that I have an employer that is willing to let me keep my job. So if need be,
I would just need to move closer to work and ride the bus. can always buy another car.

                                                                                                       Johnny874

edited to add; since this is last post I made, with leverage Bessler style, a 4:1 ratio requires the long
lever to be 5 times longer than the short lever, This would mean that in a 2 meter wheel with a hub
that is 25cm's in diameter that for the long lever to move 75 cm's, the short lever would need to
be 15 cm's long. This would allow for the outside thinkness of the wheel to be 12.5 cm's. And this is
why the one witness said the weight landed on a short warped board, it would have given that appearance.
And if I don't build Bessler's wheel, I am hoping someone who likes working with wood and building things
will take an interest in it. there are some things that would make building it much easier, but those lessons
have been difficult to learn and understand. So it might take a little faith on someone else's part to trust me.

                                                                                                                            Johnny874