Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?

[plengo]

There is a fair amount of energy overhead to run the oscillator.  Perhaps up to 30% of t
When the inductor discharges, perhaps up to 70% of the battery power becomes the useful output.  The useful output goes into whatever kind of load you want to connect across the the discharging inductor.  Since the discharge of an inductor is a current source by definition, the current decreases to zero but the voltage can be variable.  That's why a JT can light up 50 LEDs in series.  There is no 'magic' there, it's simply the way a discharging inductor works.

Mr MileHigh, so long I don't see you. I have had no chance to go back at the other forum and continue my work on Bedini.


Hey I have some agreement and small notes about your quote above. Thanks to you, once I heard you saying that I decided to take that understanding and expand on it more. I am looking into old school (1911 and earlier) mathematics  definitions and teachings of other in this subject.


What I learned is that the inductor does behave as you said with a little trick. It is not relevant to input voltage the amount of the magnetic field created in the coil. W = LI. Also it seems that today school is only focusing in magnetic flux and voltage fields. Engineers tend to think more in terms of "electron" or particle flowing throw a wire than fields at play for BOTH electric and magnetic.


Dollard explain this in detail, and so Charles Steinmetz and to a certain extend Tesla with his concepts of wave length.


I think every time one creates a magnetic field in a coil, in our case a Joule Thief, we have the potential of extracting FREE ENERGY for good. I think you don't agree but I beg you to look into this in more detail.


A resistor will not present the same magnetic field as an equivalent resistive inductor, why? both will "burn" electricity energy into heat but the inductor will create this "BEMF" for you everytime. Where is the energy to heat and expand the field from, that the resistor does not have but a coil does?


I know even straight lines have induction but I am talking about accumulative induction when used in a different geometric form like a coil.


Fausto.

[TinselKoala]

The really nice thing about the simple basic JTs using cheap transistors is the fact that they _do_ start up and continue working on very low input voltages. Perhaps their true efficiency could be beaten using more sophisticated circuitry.... but not on an input voltage of less than half a volt from a discarded AAA battery. MH is perfectly correct, even down to the resonance issue..... in theory. But in practice.... what are you going to do with all those really low voltage sources that can't run even a CMOS 555 or a logic-level mosfet?
Just about anything except a simple flashlight that is battery powered these days has a low-voltage cutoff. Unless it's specifically designed for NiCads or LiPos this cut-off is something around 1.2 volts per cell ....the point at which a AAA or AA cell is considered "discharged". But there is plenty of electrical energy left in a "dead" battery by this definition. Why just throw this energy away until it's been used for something?

And the teaching/learning value of the simple circuits and all their subtle variations is great. You can get all the parts you need for free, practically, from scavenging old TV sets; you can collect batteries from all your neighbors, and you can amaze your friends with your low-voltage Christmas lighting and your emergency light sources and nightlights. Up with the JT !! Viva JT!

[ltseung888]

Hi 2 all.. I would just like to know if the joule thief circuit gets overunity? I was searching for easy to build solid state overunity circuit and this is the best i found. I will try to replicate it if its really capable of getting overunity.

Not all JT circuits are overunity.  The hint to whether the JT may be overunity is to examine the Output Voltage, Output Current and Output Power.  The attached diagram is from a JT with one LED as load.  The Output Voltage has peak much greater than 1.5V (the AA Input Battery Voltage).  The frequency is high.  This particular JT is not conclusively overunity.  But once you tune it with capacitors and resistors, the peak can exceed 100V with the same LED shining brighter.  At that condition (I call it resonance condition), overunity is achieved.
To conclude, just building a JT is unlikely to get you an overunity device.  If you do the proper tuning by much trial and error, you may hit on a resonance condition.  At that resonance condition, a JT may have Output > Input power.  If you achieve such a condition and keep it there, your device will be overunity.  At resonance condition, electron motion energy will be lead-out or brought-in.  Thus your JT does not violate the Law of Conservation of Energy.
Many researchers fail to do the tuning but the joule ringer is likely to have achieved tuning.  The ringing sound is an indication of possible resonance.  It is annoying but it is a good indicator.  The Lead-out Energy Research Kit from BSI (not marketed yet) has a ringing tone.
Good luck in your resonance hunting.  God Bless.

[WilbyInebriated]

The ringing sound is an indication of possible resonance.  It is annoying but it is a good indicator.

the 'ringing' sound is an indication of oscillation and no, it's not a good indicator of resonance. it simply indicates that the circuit is oscillating. resonance is usually in a narrow band (or bands) of freq. your circuit could be 'ringing' and still be far from resonant.

[TinselKoala]

Not all JT circuits are overunity.  The hint to whether the JT may be overunity is to examine the Output Voltage, Output Current and Output Power.  The attached diagram is from a JT with one LED as load.  The Output Voltage has peak much greater than 1.5V (the AA Input Battery Voltage).  The frequency is high.  This particular JT is not conclusively overunity.  But once you tune it with capacitors and resistors, the peak can exceed 100V with the same LED shining brighter.  At that condition (I call it resonance condition), overunity is achieved.
To conclude, just building a JT is unlikely to get you an overunity device.  If you do the proper tuning by much trial and error, you may hit on a resonance condition.  At that resonance condition, a JT may have Output > Input power.  If you achieve such a condition and keep it there, your device will be overunity.  At resonance condition, electron motion energy will be lead-out or brought-in.  Thus your JT does not violate the Law of Conservation of Energy.
Many researchers fail to do the tuning but the joule ringer is likely to have achieved tuning.  The ringing sound is an indication of possible resonance.  It is annoying but it is a good indicator.  The Lead-out Energy Research Kit from BSI (not marketed yet) has a ringing tone.
Good luck in your resonance hunting.  God Bless.

Lawrence.... did you make that graph with data from your scope set to AC COUPLING??? It sure looks to me like you did.


I am afraid I must ask you to rein in your "overunity" claims until you understand properly how to do power computations using your oscilloscope.

And I will remind you once again that POWER isn't necessarily conserved and that it is EASY to get massive gains in instantaneous output power, over instantaneous or even average input power. This does not indicate overunity performance at all. You need to INTEGRATE your instantaneous output power values over an appropriate time interval to obtain an ENERGY value, and compare this to the ENERGY value found from doing the same thing to the input instantaneous power curve.
In addition, your graph image is called "output power" but it's a graph of VOLTAGE. Voltage is not power.

And if your JT isn't making an audible ringing sound, it is either oscillating faster than you can hear (ultrasonic) or your coil is embedded in epoxy, or it's just not working at all.

ETA: I have made YET ANOTHER video explaining and illustrating the use of AC versus DC coupling on a JT output voltage signal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVFyaQY6pR0

I sound a little irate by the end of the video because this must be the tenth time I've explained this, as if to a wall with no ears. You cannot use an AC coupled signal, raw, to give you values for a power computation!! You must know the value of the true baseline and how much your AC-coupled signal has moved with respect to it. This information is lost in LTseung's graph above, and only the AC-coupled values, averaging to zero around the zero baseline, are shown.