Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?

[Void]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0j46SSlRuI&feature=youtu.be
The Video showed Board 120 with Input and Output connections.
The crossing of 0 ref line by Input CH2 (Current) was clear.  More research needed.....
Full DSO analysis showed COP = 9.17.
@Void,
The waveform and analysis showed similar behavior as yours.  Will try to show characteristics around this range...

@Lawrence, thanks for completely ignoring my comments and questions to you.
You will most likely completely ignore my following comments as well, but I thought I would give it a try one last time, just on the off chance that you do have some slight interest in trying to understand what is really going on under a low input voltage condition with your boards.

If you turn off the power supply such that the LED is off and not conducting current, and you still measure a very similar waveform across the output current sensing one ohm resistor with your scope, then you are obviously not measuring a 'current' at all. It is just noise voltage picked up by the scope probe at this connection point, and this will obviously greatly skew your measurements if your output current magnitude is proportional to or much less than the actual noise voltage magnitude, as is the case when the LED is just turned on and glowing dimly. As I have already demonstrated, your output current measurement is meaningless under this condition. To talk about input and output power and COP under such measurement conditions as if they are meaningful numbers makes no sense. If you disagree with anything I am saying, then please point out what you disagree with and explain specifically why you disagree, so we can discuss further. This of course assumes that you have some interest in trying to understand what is actually going on in this arrangement.

In my last experiment with board 119 above, noise made up a large percentage of the input current measurement which would likely throw off the input current measurement to at least some degree or other, making the input current measurement under this condition unreliable, and noise obviously completely covered up the output current waveform such that what was being measured as 'output current' was actually just mainly noise, and was not reflective of the actual output current at all.

[ltseung888]

@Lawrence, thanks for completely ignoring my comments and questions to you.
You will most likely completely ignore my following comments as well, but I thought I would give it a try one last time, just on the off chance that you do have some slight interest in trying to understand what is really going on under a low input voltage condition with your boards.

If you turn off the power supply such that the LED is off and not conducting current, and you still measure a very similar waveform across the output current sensing one ohm resistor with your scope, then you are obviously not measuring a 'current' at all. It is just noise voltage picked up by the scope probe at this connection point, and this will obviously greatly skew your measurements if your output current magnitude is proportional to or much less than the actual noise voltage magnitude, as is the case when the LED is just turned on and glowing dimly. As I have already demonstrated, your output current measurement is meaningless under this condition. To talk about input and output power and COP under such measurement conditions as if they are meaningful numbers makes no sense. If you disagree with anything I am saying, then please point out what you disagree with and explain specifically why you disagree, so we can discuss further. This of course assumes that you have some interest in trying to understand what is actually going on in this arrangement.

In my last experiment with board 119 above, noise made up a large percentage of the input current measurement which would likely throw off the input current measurement to at least some degree or other, making the input current measurement under this condition unreliable, and noise obviously completely covered up the output current waveform such that what was being measured as 'output current' was actually just mainly noise, and was not reflective of the actual output current at all.

@Void,
Your comments were good and valid.  The actual measured results were not useful in trying to prove overunity.  Once we are at the noise level, any reading may arise.

However, I am trying to see if the "noise" can be turned into useful energy to light up the LED.  TK's Video; Dr. Ting's wireless JT; Lasersaber's ringers etc. all pointed to that possibility.  In particular, Mr. T S Lau's recent timer and capacitor experiment at his home (with window facing a high power line a few hundred meters away) showed the possibility of a "forever lighted lamp".  His result for 22 days showed a continued lighting from a rechargeable AA Battery starting at 1.26V and still lighting at 0.61V.  With 3 hours rest, the battery Voltage climbed back to 1V approximately.

That experiment is being tuned with more capacitors and different timing.  The expectation is that the set up will last months.  We may add the secondary coil winding at some stage.  One possible explanation of the much longer life of the battery is due to "bringing-in" energy from the noise or electrosmog.  The crossing of the 0 ref line behavior indicated such possibility.

Another possible explanation is that at some "resonance condition", a still not clearly understood mechanism would "lead-out" or bring-in much more energy.  I occasionally find a sudden increase in brightness of the LED and a rise in CH1 Vrms with no battery attached.  That particular behavior is difficult to capture but I am sure that we shall capture and video it one day.  The thought at this point is that the slow draining of the capacitor may hit one or more of such condidtions.  If we can maintain such conditions or keep bring the circuit back to such conditions,....

Your displayed Input Waveform clearly indicated a "crossing 0 ref line" behavior for Input Current.  You can try to vary your DC Power Supply Voltage slowly and observe whether you can reproduce such "crossing 0 ref line" behavior every time.  I can do that on my Atten.  There were comments that the behavior was due to bad set up of the Atten or "the limitation of a cheap scope".  Your similar results lowered the possibility of bad set up.....

[markdansie]

Here you go
Power generation using noise.

[ltseung888]

Effect of "noise" at around 0.38V by Mr. T S Lau.

The experiment was done at the home of Mr. Lau with his window facing a high power line within a few hundred feet.  Board 128 used a timer set to 2 minutes off and 10 seconds on.  Board 127 used no timer.  Both have a capacitor (2.3V 10F).

Board 127 is interesting in that the voltage drop was verry slow after the 0.38V mark.  At such level, the Atten DSO showed much crossing of the 0 ref line for Input CH2 (current).  That indicated both positive and negative power.  Negative Power means energy flowing back to source.....

That explained the much longer "hanging on" of the Battery and the Overunity results.

@Void,

Doing DSO Analysis at noise level may not be useless and meaningless after all.....

[Void]

@Lawrence: Thanks for the response. The experiments with the super caps as a power source are interesting, and appear to show some potential, but I personally wouldn't be too quick to try to draw any conclusions or to try to attribute what is going on to any particular factor such as noise or whatever at this point, without doing a lot more experimentation and analysis. I have not seen any indication that noise pickup has any effect on actual circuit performance in my own experiments with the joule thief circuit. However, if the circuit is located in a fairly strong EM field, then that might well have some measurable impact on performance. No doubt different types of experiments can be done to help get a better understanding of what is going on. I will do more experiments with this as well, as time permits. I will post up any interesting results back here if you like.
Cheers.