The Paradox Engine

[telecom]

With a twin disk setup if one disk rotates clockwise then so too the other. This creates opposing secondary reactions at the disk axes on opposite sides of the rotor arm, ergo additive forces (and no excess baggage of a counter balance as with the single disk setup).     

yes, you are absolutely correct - was confused by all these new discoveries. Still can't understand why Sir Isaac wasn't telling the whole truth!

[Tusk]

Still can't understand why Sir Isaac wasn't telling the whole truth!

Or maybe someone redacted his work telecom (I believe that's the favoured expression these days when there's an inference of foul play). We lost most of da Vinci's work to the mists of time, that's probably under lock and key somewhere too.

I have been trying to think of a different method of demonstration that does not turn into a big mess,, something simple, I keep getting into an elaborate setup

lol indeed webby1; it's a rare thing to end a brainstorming session on the PE with even the remotest idea of whatever it was you were thinking when the session started 

just like a little electric motor sitting on a desktop,, unrestrained,, when you energize the motor it will spin and move about until it is up to speed,, then it just sits there vibrating,, you are using that moment while it is spinning up.

Correct, my thinking on the PE concept thus far has been restricted to inertial considerations. I could stick my neck out with non inertial variations but I haven't done the experiments or the long term thinking on that possibility, as I stated earlier it's uncharted territory. But for now, having exposed enough of the gold vein to indicate the size of the deposit, for me at least the job description changed from prospector to messenger.

That little electric motor btw; all those balanced torques around the armature, might be worth cutting a few wires to induce a PE type bias, just to see what happens.

[Tusk]

A good 'quick and dirty' experiment webby1, you appear to have built yourself a rudimentary PE 

The motor shaft was spinning CCW and the shaft was moving CW

Ok so far, this is as predicted.

What was not expected was a constant shift in the CW direction,, I was expecting the motor to settle back into the start position when it reached a constant speed, it would move back a little but stay there until I kept the power off.

Hmmmm; so either you have some resistance in the motor on the non-drive side other than inertia, which apparently sustained an equal secondary reactive force at the axis, OR you have some torque effect in play which does not manifest in the PE apparatus.

Since your motor case effectively becomes a static element of the 'rotor arm' (in respect of the rotor arm) we might be tempted to concede that the counter torque on the case (in respect of the armature accelerating or even sustaining a constant rate of rotation against air resistance etc) will cause a CW torque bias on the rotor arm. This because the moment of force on the 'dead' side of the case is greater than that of the active side, which is nearer to the central axis or main shaft. This type of torque bias (or something akin to it) was thought by many to be responsible for the rotation of the main rotor arm in the PE apparatus, before I was able to establish the authenticity of the secondary motion phenomenon. It should be obvious however, that even a bad bearing would be unlikely to induce such vigorous motion as seen in the PE apparatus, with the radial difference being as small as it is. And that supposes such a torque could be induced at the bearing, which is subjected to a tangential force (as near as possible) on one side only. I suspect that any device designed to rely on a free running bearing to drive or power some other device in this manner, would be sadly lacking in performance. As I understand it, one of the functions of free running bearings is specifically not to transmit torque.

Likewise with your experiment it is difficult to allow a torque on the case since you have a drive side and a 'dead' side. While not entirely a tangential force, neither is it an ideal method for inducing a torque on the case. More likely the drive side of the case reacts in opposition to the motion of the coils of the armature as they pass nearby, while the 'dead' side of the case acts more like an end pivot point and transmits little or no force to the 'rotor arm'.   

With the magnetic strip removed (on the non-drive side) it is possible that air resistance increases a little due to more airflow around that area. If so, then this might be an example of a constant force performing the same office as inertia. This might account for the unexpected 'constant shift in the CW direction'.

I would have to say 'unconfirmed result' at this point, but an interesting experiment nonetheless. If your method could be refined a little then as you suggested others might try it as a first step to familiarity with (and credibility of) the concept.






 

[telecom]

Another idea...

[Tusk]

Sorry Tusk,, I am a little off-topic but I thought I would share the mods and stuff for those that might want to try it themselves.

No problem webby1, if you can brew up a simplified PE experiment then as you say others may build it and see the phenomena first hand. But you do need to keep a watchful eye on those unexpected interactions which often appear when modifying rather than scratch building. Good luck with version 2, that motor certainly looks adequate to the task; with the remaining magnets that's also quite a long way from a tangential force, but you will get a bias which is hopefully enough to manifest the secondary reaction/motion.