9/11 truth movement topic

[Pirate88179]

AB:

I have never even heard of that theory before but it makes a lot of sense.  If one of those building went over, the body count could have easily been 3 times higher.  I don't know enough about it to agree with it or not but it is really possible.

Elvis:

I see your point.  Float every kook story and theory out there, and whatever the truth was just got buried deeper.  Which, as you said, is the intent of disinformation.  What I was referring to earlier was a report (TV) on how the original contractor used inferior grade bolts and also, they were of smaller diameter than specified.  This gave them a much lower sheer rating.  My understanding was these bolts held the floor supports to the exoskeleton of the building and when the sprinkler systems went off and pumped tons of water onto the floors they collapsed in what appeared to be a controlled manner.

Was this disinformation as well?  I don't know.  It seems to make sense and be plausible but, there is always some truth in disinformation to make it credible also.

A New York  contractor using the wrong size and inferior quality bolts? Very believable to me.  Is this true?  I have no idea.

I do agree about the far out theories clouding the issue.  Good point.

Bill

[PYRODIN123321]

AHHHHH....It is good to see people finnaly waking up here(i knew you guys were smart) I gave up on the other 911 thread
@Pirate88179

7 fell 5 hours later and they reported it too soon on bbc the lady is standing there saying it fell when you can see it right behind her!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mxFRigYD3s
there is no way I believe the "official" reports and i dont see how anybody could!

you guys should listen to alex jones he is a little "doomsday" but I would say that anything you are skeptical about you can look it up and see if what he talks about is true, unbelievable, but true.
he gets a lot of discrediting done by media ect.
but he still gets some very reputable guests


i posted this before
from thread 911 a short clip

TIME-REVERSED ACOUSTICS (FROM ANOTHER SITE)
Don Albert of the U.S. Army's Cold Regions Research and Engineering Laboratory will discuss a system that uses "time-reversal" acoustics to pinpoint the exact locations of gunfire and explosions in an urban environment. A network of simple audio sensors records sounds in an urban area; a computer then generates backwards versions of the sound waves and broadcasts the reversed versions in a virtual urban environment. The waves eventually return and focus at the original source point, enabling researchers to pinpoint the location of a sound, such as an explosion or gunshot.
^WHAT IF YOU COULD DO THIS WITH LIGHT^

(FROM ANOTHER SITE)
Laboratoire Ondes et Acoustique, ESPCI, France, will discuss an idea for transforming all objects in a room into touch-sensitive, remote control devices, even if they don't run on electricity. The idea is the following: touch any object in a room, and an acoustic detector records the sound or vibration from a touch. Then, employing a scheme known as "time-reversed" acoustics, the detector sends a reversed version of the soundwave to the object. After sending soundwaves back and forth several times between source and detector, the system is able to pinpoint exactly where the object lies in the room. One can therefore create "virtual switches" that perform certain functions in response to touch. (Paper 5aEA9)

some of this phase conjugate time-reverse fourier wave tech is capable of making holograms!!! I think the gov is gonna tell us about it ten to twenty yeas later like the stealth bomber tech

I THINK YOU CAN DO THIS WITH ELECTROMAGNETIC WAVES TOO (NOT SURE, CORRECT ME IF IM WRONG!!)

IF THIS TECH IS REAL THEN I COULD SEE 911 HAPPENING WITHOUT PLANES OR EXPLOSIVES OR THERMITE

some of BEARDENS STUFF FITS IN PRETTY WELL
YOU COULD MELT THE SUPPORTS WITH JUST ELECTROMAGNETIC WAVES

[Cap-Z-ro]

Some other things intentionally ignored for varying reasons.


Withholding of  evidence - the film of the object that hit the Pentagon (leaving no bobies or black boxes)

The accounts of the people working in the basement who were severely burned and injured in the explosions below.

And right after the anthrax in the letters was traced back to a CIA lab, there was a sudden loss of interest in the anthrax issue.

And considering that Bush made a publicized that school...why was he not rushed to safety if indded they believed 'america was under attack'...unless of course they knew there was no danger...because they themselves were the perpetrators.

Regards...

[madsen]

Withholding of  evidence - the film of the object that hit the Pentagon (leaving no bobies or black boxes)

Who says that no bodies were found at the Pentagon? 

According to this page:  http://911research.wtc7.net/planes/evidence/bodies.html , which gives this cached article:  http://911research.wtc7.net/cache/planes/evidence/afip_pentvictimid.htm  as a source, almost all the bodies of passengers on flight 77 were identified.  Do you have contrary information?

[Elvis Oswald]

Pirate - If that is your understanding, then I can see why you would dismiss other theories.  Thanks so much for actually telling me what you thought happened.  Most deniers have no logical reason for their position - good to see that you do.
And... it makes me feel encouraged about the future.
I've been of the mind lately that there is no hope at all.  It's hard to persuade someone who has no basis for the position they have, other than the religion/politics they belong to.  I've met people many times who treat me like a brother when they learn I am a gun owner... and then have nothing to do with me when they find out I'm against putting the 10 commandments in courthouses.
They only way to persuade those folks is to be popular... and the truth is seldom popular.

That said, I agree - that is a plausible scenario.  If I wanted to test that, I would look into the physics behind that.  But first, it's important to know that the NIST's theory does not explain how the core column gave way.  And I'd also note that they reported the most likely scenario for the resulting collapse... based on the assumption that the impact and the fire was the only stress on the structure.  They did not look at all the evidence and report what most likely occurred... they started at the impact and went from there.
But to your point, if the bolts were weakened... they would not have all snapped at once so the building would fall straight in on itself.  The odds against that are enough to rule that out - unless it was just one more "coincidence" that happened that day.
I'd also like to find out if the steel components of the structure were wielded.  I worked construction while I was in school and worked hanging steel for a few weeks of that.  As I recall, they are bolted and wielded.
But either way, IF the bolts of one floor gave way at once... there would be some resistance from the underlying floors.
And don't forget about the core column.

Now compare that pancake theory with the demolition theory...  which better explains these questions?

There were traces of thermite found in the debris. 

They found fragments of human bones on rooftops 1/2 mile (or so) away.  The fragments were all tiny - like a few millimeters.  How did the bones explode and get ejected at a velocity that would carry them that far?
Speaking of the bodies... how many did they recover intact? How many actual body parts did they find?  I'd have to look it up... but I think there were very few of either.

Which theory would account for the heat (nasa infrared images of the site) in the basement right after the event - much less after 5 days.  Almost 1400 degrees after 5 days.  There were spots of molten steel after 5 days too.

And what about the columns with clean cuts, at an angle, with traces of molten steel running down from the cut that had rehardened.  I don't think the bolts giving way would have cut the columns and generated enough heat doing so that it melted some of the steel.

And finally - the big one - why was the second tower hit the first one to fall?  It was also the one that the plane hit a corner... and most of the jet fuel can be seen exploding in the air.  That building did not receive a direct hit.  It should have had alot of damage on one corner.  If it fell at all, it should have fallen to the side that was weak, just like a tree.
But it was the first one to collapse straight down at damn near free-fall speed... at the same speed buildings that are wired fall at.
The makes less sense to me than building 7.
We can all plainly see that one corner was stressed.  But that corner does not exhibit any signs of being weaker when the collapse occurs.

All I can say to anyone here that doesn't see the truth, is - I am not someone who hates Bush.  I am a gun toting American who has voluntarily sworn to uphold, protect, and defend the Constitution.  I am a father and a grandfather.  I go to work each day.
I have the same hopes and the same dreams for my kids and grandkids as you do for yours.  I have no reason to cling to a biased opinion that is based on party affiliation or my position on any other political issue.
I am intelligent.  I am logical and methodical when the subject is serious.  I am a programmer (for god's sake)
And I am absolutely not here because I have nothing else to do or because I like to argue or because I want to elect a democrat.

And I know that most of you are the same as me.  But I don't think you've looked at as much as I have on this.  And I would sincerely hope that you would look a little further, considering the lengths that myself and others are going to in order to persuade you.